Keeping students in the age of Covid

Martial D

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A lot of people do have another person present in their home. Sometimes multiple people! And they might have even more people who come over to their house sometimes.
So you are suggesting watching a video and trying out what you saw, but probably don't understand due to lack of proper instruction, on your mom/gf/wife/little brother.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are trying to make a joke.
 

JowGaWolf

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So you are suggesting watching a video and trying out what you saw, but probably don't understand due to lack of proper instruction, on your mom/gf/wife/little brother.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are trying to make a joke.
That's your reality.

This is what actually happens
Family doing padwork


Family Sparring


 

JowGaWolf

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If you don't live alone, then you probably have someone to hold mits for your.

 

WaterGal

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So you are suggesting watching a video and trying out what you saw, but probably don't understand due to lack of proper instruction, on your mom/gf/wife/little brother.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are trying to make a joke.

We had 8 kids take a Zoom kids BJJ class today. They did well, and had fun drilling basic techniques with their mom or dad at home. Now, if they're having trouble, it can be harder to give them good feedback, especially if their camera stinks or they don't have good lighting in their living room. But it works better than you'd think. Now, if you're not good at explaining and demonstrating how to do the techniques safely and effectively, you might have some trouble, but that'll be an issue no matter where your students are.
 

dvcochran

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Well. Yes actually. Aside from the warmup.

But look, if you guys want to believe you are getting something from martial arts zoom meetings, great. I just don't see how, and more than anything it seems like a cheap and easy way to make a buck by those selling said lessons .
I don't disagree and have said as much but it is better than nothing.
Again, it is Not a replacement but a stop gap.
 

dvcochran

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Now, if you're not good at explaining and demonstrating how to do the techniques safely and effectively, you might have some trouble, but that'll be an issue no matter where your students are.
Well said. This is the biggest element of remote classes.
 

dvcochran

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So you are suggesting watching a video and trying out what you saw, but probably don't understand due to lack of proper instruction, on your mom/gf/wife/little brother.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are trying to make a joke.
I has also been repeatedly stated in the thread that online training is best for people who have already had tactile training and have an understanding of what they are doing.
Maybe if you think of it as a workout instead of teaching new skills it will soak in.
 

Martial D

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I has also been repeatedly stated in the thread that online training is best for people who have already had tactile training and have an understanding of what they are doing.
Maybe if you think of it as a workout instead of teaching new skills it will soak in.
Yes..thanks for your condencending remark but it has 'soaked in' just fine. It has not been discussed here as a 'workout'. It seems more like it is being sold here by the two main proponents in this thread as a wholesale replacement. I get it, you can't go to the gym/club/dojo due to covid, and the ones running these places are feeling the pinch.

Hard times all around. My only point is that most people will get nothing of value from such 'training'.

Caveat emptor
 

dvcochran

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Yes..thanks for your condencending remark but it has 'soaked in' just fine. It has not been discussed here as a 'workout'. It seems more like it is being sold here by the two main proponents in this thread as a wholesale replacement. I get it, you can't go to the gym/club/dojo due to covid, and the ones running these places are feeling the pinch.

Hard times all around. My only point is that most people will get nothing of value from such 'training'.

Caveat emptor
I do not know what the emoji is for scratching my head but you have me doing it. I merely stated the facts of this thread and offered a suggestion to help you see it differently.
Never meant it to sound condescending.
 

JowGaWolf

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My only point is that most people will get nothing of value from such 'training'
What is it that you think they should be getting from training that you don't see them getting from online training.
 

gpseymour

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Really though, even it the highest definition possible you won't get much from video training. At best you will end up being able to convincingly ape movements. I mean, if you practice some style where nobody fights anyone and you just like synchronized movements then sure..why not. If you are looking for more that that you will need another human being present to lay your hands on.
Here's a situation I could see working. If I had a boxing coach and wanted to work on some basic combos via video, he could demo them at a heavy bag. I could repeat them on one, and he coud give me feedback.

I could do the same with any combos (sticks, kicks, etc.).

With an experienced person, more could be transmitted. If I already have basic footwork (meaning I already do that bit reasonably well), a boxing coach could teach me some variations via video, too. Same for shadow-boxing sequences to work on head movement, etc. I also think an experienced person can pick up some new basics via video. A good kicking coach could get someone started on the basics of a new kick via video if they are already a decent kicker (again, they probably need a heavy bag to work with).

I think all of this is more problematic with a truly new person. You're going to be able to deliver some concepts and maybe get them started on basic strikes, but there's a big gap for all but the exceptional few.
 

gpseymour

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We had 8 kids take a Zoom kids BJJ class today. They did well, and had fun drilling basic techniques with their mom or dad at home. Now, if they're having trouble, it can be harder to give them good feedback, especially if their camera stinks or they don't have good lighting in their living room. But it works better than you'd think. Now, if you're not good at explaining and demonstrating how to do the techniques safely and effectively, you might have some trouble, but that'll be an issue no matter where your students are.
It can also be a problem for those of us who communicate more by touch ("move this leg here" - tap leg with foot, tap foot to ground).
 

gpseymour

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It seems more like it is being sold here by the two main proponents in this thread as a wholesale replacement.
I haven't read anyone's post that way. I did see one person suggest some folks may prefer it, because they aren't really interested in learning to fight, but that's not all that controversial, I'd think.
 

JowGaWolf

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I haven't read anyone's post that way. I did see one person suggest some folks may prefer it, because they aren't really interested in learning to fight, but that's not all that controversial, I'd think.
Here's someone who has learned to do BJJ online and he says how he was able to do it. From a customer's perspective.

Everything he says here is the same thing that many of us have been saying. Techniques can be learned online. Application / actual use needs a sparring partner. If people aren't interested in learning how to apply the technique then there's no need for a sparring partner. When I taught in a school there were students who wanted to learn to use Martial Arts. They showed up on Thursdays. Then there were some who weren't interested and they showed up on the other days. and didn't want to spar. So I'm confused as to what Martial D is expecting people to get out of Online training in his eyes. There just seems to be a disconnect or something that's not being communicated when thinking of Online Training vs Offline training.
 

Martial D

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That's too general. What specifically about martial arts.
Well I guess that hinges on your definition of martial arts.

To me, without the martial part it's just asian dancing, and to get the applicable 'martial' skills requires actual hands on training.
 

JowGaWolf

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Well I guess that hinges on your definition of martial arts.
Not on my definition. I'm trying to figure out your perspective because there is some miscommunication going on.

To me, without the martial part it's just asian dancing, and to get the applicable 'martial' skills requires actual hands on training.
This is the definition that I use for myself. But I know in reality that's not how it is in the world. In the world people will take boxing classes and never fight or spar. People will take karate classes and do forms but never care about how to apply the techniques. Then you have TKD tricking and TKD Martial arts dancing (yes that's areal thing). Crazy 88 is a gym that produces world professional champions, but they will teach people MMA, and if they don't want to get into the ring then they won't force that person to fight in the ring.

So in the world of Martial Arts and business I have to accept the truth that there are different aspects of Martial Arts and not everyone is going to see it the way that I see it. If I only open a school for people like me, then I would only have a hand full of people that would be interested in taking that path. To give you an example. In a Class of 20 students, I ran a Sparring class every Thursday for 1 year and during that time no one showed up. For 1 freaking year not one person. I kept showing up even though no one else showed up. I started to do some solo training that helps with applying techniques in sparring by myself for an entire year hoping that someone would Join. It wasn't until I shared my sparring videos with the other students that they became interested in it. They saw that I could actually use Kung Fu. I even had a Student at a different school ask me how did I learn how to use Kung Fu. Even after all that. It was only 5 out 20 that were actually willing to train like I did.

If that's all that I'm going to do then I'm going to be broke. No school, no equipment for students, no students.. Sometimes you have to meet people where they are and for the goals they want to accomplish.

But now I have a better understanding of why you see online classes the way you do.

Edit on this: When I say I see Martial Arts similar to how you see it, I mean I think people should train all of it including the sparring. But where I differ is that I don't see it as a dance if they don't train the martial part. Even if they don't do the sparring they are still doing martial arts, if they are practicing the techniques, in a way that would be correct with the application of it.
 
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dvcochran

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Not on my definition. I'm trying to figure out your perspective because there is some miscommunication going on.

This is the definition that I use for myself. But I know in reality that's not how it is in the world. In the world people will take boxing classes and never fight or spar. People will take karate classes and do forms but never care about how to apply the techniques. Then you have TKD tricking and TKD Martial arts dancing (yes that's areal thing). Crazy 88 is a gym that produces world professional champions, but they will teach people MMA, and if they don't want to get into the ring then they won't force that person to fight in the ring.

So in the world of Martial Arts and business I have to accept the truth that there are different aspects of Martial Arts and not everyone is going to see it the way that I see it. If I only open a school for people like me, then I would only have a hand full of people that would be interested in taking that path. To give you an example. In a Class of 20 students, I ran a Sparring class every Thursday for 1 year and during that time no one showed up. For 1 freaking year not one person. I kept showing up even though no one else showed up. I started to do some solo training that helps with applying techniques in sparring by myself for an entire year hoping that someone would Join. It wasn't until I shared my sparring videos with the other students that they became interested in it. They saw that I could actually use Kung Fu. I even had a Student at a different school ask me how did I learn how to use Kung Fu. Even after all that. It was only 5 out 20 that were actually willing to train like I did.

If that's all that I'm going to do then I'm going to be broke. No school, no equipment for students, no students.. Sometimes you have to meet people where they are and for the goals they want to accomplish.

But now I have a better understanding of why you see online classes the way you do.

Edit on this: When I say I see Martial Arts similar to how you see it, I mean I think people should train all of it including the sparring. But where I differ is that I don't see it as a dance if they don't train the martial part. Even if they don't do the sparring they are still doing martial arts, if they are practicing the techniques, in a way that would be correct with the application of it.

I see it just the opposite. I cannot be martial and be dance. It can be art and be dance.

mar·tial
/ˈmärSHəl/
adjective
  1. of or appropriate to war; warlike.
 

JowGaWolf

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I see it just the opposite. I cannot be martial and be dance. It can be art and be dance.

mar·tial
/ˈmärSHəl/
adjective
  1. of or appropriate to war; warlike.
I'm not going to kick out or belittle a student for not wanting to use or train martial arts as a fighting system. I'll not only lose good people, I'll also end up losing good people willing to support and promote my school and the system that I train in. If I want to train as the definition that you stated, then can do that with or without a school. If I'm trying to share and promote my system then I need to have some understanding of the reasons someone may want to join my school. Especially since there's a lot of people out there who take martial arts in person who can't fight even though they spar.

The fastest way to have your school shut down and go out of business is to do start dictating to your students how they should value the training you offer and trying to force them to be like you.

Don't get me wrong. I still teach functional martial arts. I don't change how I teach or what I teach. I can only teach what I know. But if someone wants to only pay me $80 a month to do forms that look cool, or to just get exercise. Then I'm going to take the $80 train them. Students don't have to train for the same reason I train. They only need to:
1. Show up for practice
2. Be respectful to themselves and others.
3. Pay membership fees on time or notify me that they can't
4. Don't be a Jerk.
5. Train hard have fun.

That's all I have ever asked of students and so far that brought people through the door, I never got a call about teaching their kids how to be disciplined. All of my kid calls were about self-defense against bullies. All of my adult calls were about exercise and stay in shape with the exception of 3 adults who wanted to learn how to fight. And another Jow Ga student from up north who wanted to do cool kung fu stuff. He didn't like our school too much. We were too practical for him, some Jow Ga schools go for the flashy look and entertainment look. They teach real techniques but they also add flashy stuff.
 

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