Kara-Ho Kenpo?

[Thunderbolt]

EPAK= ED PARKER'S AMERICAN KENPO

The question in the other post asked if Professor Chow was in the lineage of American Kenpo, those that said no explained that while Prof. Chow is an important part of American Kenpo's history because he taught and inspired Mr. Parker, American Kenpo's lineage starts with the founder Mr. Parker, the ironic thing is that the very people who feel this is an insult to Prof. Chow for not including him in the lineage of American Kenpo also talk negitively about American Kenpo as a system, so you would think that if they dont like American Kenpo why do they want to connect Prof. Chow to it?

In any case if people dont know what a lineage is in the traditional sense of how it is used in martial arts they might have voted yes thinking it means included in the history. Another Ironic thing is the people who say Chow is the start of the lineage or Mitose still call the system EPAK which means "Ed Parker's" American Kenpo versus just saying Prof. Chow's American Kenpo or Mitose's American Kenpo which of course would be wrong in reality Mitose and Chow both taught different systems not American Kenpo) but that seems to escape these people who are bent on discrediting the founder of our system.

Respectfully
Sami

Sami,

Have 3 things to say.

1-Nobody was born and automatically become a good martial artist. You must learn it from somebody.

2-The fact that Ed Parker acknowledges there is 10% of what Chow taught in AK.????? Chow should have some kind of "credit" or "acknowledgement" in AK.

3-don't worry about Chow being in EPK's lineage. From what I heard, Chow didn't like Ed Parker for some reasons ANYWAY. Even though all of AK people want Chow to be included in EP's lineage, I'm sure Chow will say "HELL NO" from heaven.

have a good day

 

[gmkuoha]

Sami,

Have 3 things to say.

1-Nobody was born and automatically become a good martial artist. You must learn it from somebody.

2-The fact that Ed Parker acknowledges there is 10% of what Chow taught in AK.????? Chow should have some kind of "credit" or "acknowledgement" in AK.

3-don't worry about Chow being in EPK's lineage. From what I heard, Chow didn't like Ed Parker for some reasons ANYWAY. Even though all of AK people want Chow to be included in EP's lineage, I'm sure Chow will say "HELL NO" from heaven.

have a good day

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GAB]

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Grandmaster Kuoha,

I am thankful for your input, I understand and have read the amount of friction that developed in the on going relationship or lack of that relationship with Ed Parker...

I have talked to Hanshi Bruce Juchnik many times and he has told me many stories, he is and was always respectful towards Professor Chow and his talent and what he did for the Martial Arts that came out of Hawaii...

I have one other question for you regarding the lineage from GM Mitose to Professor Chow...I realize that the Professor was older and a very competant fighter in his own right, I have never studied his art other then a few posts and some video clips...

In your conversations with the Professor did he ever indicate to you whether GM Mitose was a good Martial Arts Practioner? I have read quite a bit on the subject and it is not like I am naive about this subject...

I am not trying to bait you or play games... (I will save that for others who I enjoy kicking ant hills with) I know people have said stuff but...

I would just like you to answer the question in your own words...

Could GM James Mitose use his knowledge and power to subdue his opponents???

Regards, Gary

 

[gmkuoha]

In your conversations with the Professor did he ever indicate to you whether GM Mitose was a good Martial Arts Practioner? I have read quite a bit on the subject and it is not like I am naive about this subject...

* I believe it was best said by Emparado when he trained with both men and said that Mitosi was the brains behind it all and Professor Chow was the brawn. It is a fact that Professor Chow even acted as a bodyguard for Mitosi. My personal feelings is that, Mitosi was good in his own right but many things that were printed and published were not entirely the truth and Mr. John Bishop did quite a bit of history about all this and found it out also, but nothing should be taken away from either men as we were not there when it all happened. I know that I would not want to be the person going against Professor Chow or even my first Kara-Ho instructor, Sensei Kuheana as the speed and internal power that these men portrayed was unbelievable. When I was back home, I went everywhere with Professor Chow and there were a few occasions that I had to intervene with others that wanted to try him out. It was a classic example of the student showing that it was impossible to get to the teacher. After any physical altercation, Professor would always tell me how proud he was of my actions. I would bet that both men were awesome in their own rite. I Have seen Professor Chow in combat and he was awesome even till the day he passed away.

 

[GAB]

Grandmaster Kuoha,

What a lot of people are interested in regarding Mitose, is/was his ability to fight.

From persons who are on one side of the fence Pro, Yes he could...

From persons who are on the other side of the fence, No, he could not, his son was not even good, etc...

When asking Hanshi Bruce Juchnik and others in that camp, it is YES, he was a Master and he came from a long lineage, very complicated but it is there and we are getting closer to the end of the trail.

As I said in a post on other thread, in the opinion of the guards that worked around him, Yes...He was tough...

Did You ever hear any of that kind of talk from Professor Chow or others that were there?

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

Obviously there is only one acceptable answer...

 

[GAB]

Obviously there is only one acceptable answer...

Yes Kai,

Hanshi is putting on another gathering this year, as he has for 17 years...

Like always it is an international gathering... It will be in Reno this year...

He will have the only living Black belts from the Mitose class's at the gathering...

Try to make it if you can...

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

Paul Yamaguchi and ???? While you're here what were the teachers present for last years gathering??

 

[gmkuoha]

Grandmaster Kuoha,

What a lot of people are interested in regarding Mitose, is/was his ability to fight.

From persons who are on one side of the fence Pro, Yes he could...

From persons who are on the other side of the fence, No, he could not, his son was not even good, etc...

When asking Hanshi Bruce Juchnik and others in that camp, it is YES, he was a Master and he came from a long lineage, very complicated but it is there and we are getting closer to the end of the trail.

As I said in a post on other thread, in the opinion of the guards that worked around him, Yes...He was tough...

Did You ever hear any of that kind of talk from Professor Chow or others that were there?

Regards, Gary

* You should contact Sifu John Bishop about the leaneage as there were many holes in that part of the history.
Also Professor Chow would tell me things about Mitosi that I care not to repeat out of respect, but I know for a fact that getting anywhere's in Hawaii as a martial arts in the old days, you had to have knowledge and be able to take care of yourself as you were constantly tried to see how good you really were.
I do know that many stories that stemmed from the prison walls were false and as a former law enforcement officer for many years, I know that is one of the number one rules and that is there would be NO training of the martial arts of any kind while one was incarcerated....period! As some system bases their whole background on a guard during that time, I tend to disbelieve that as I know that a guard caught training would be fired and prosecuted in a heart beat. I also contacted the warden during the time that Mitosi was incarcerated and he told me that he did not even remember him and that they were only a number behind prison walls and that any type of training being done in the arts did not happen. I also spoke to one of the captains that he referred to me which was up there in age at the time I spoke to him and even he stated that he did not know who Mitosi was and that he can guarantee me that there was no martial arts training going on at all. He was also contacted by my neighbor and close friend who just retired after 30 years as a supervisor with the DA's office (investigator) here in San Diego and they both made the same statements. They said that anyone making claims otherwise were not telling the truth as any extensive training that we were speaking of, would eventually be known to them.

 

[GAB]

Grand Master Kuoha,

Thank you for your information...

I do not recall anyone talking about training in Martial Arts either.

I do recall a couple of stories from Guards who were there, that said Mitose did get into a couple of altercations, but I don't remember any talk about training...

Several different Guards have told me, they saw Mitose's books that he wrote...

I was curious if they had conversations or any friendship, if it was there it must have been strained at best..

I know they were very different and had different out looks on Martial arts and life... I don't believe Chow had any Houses of illrepute but James Mitose did and there are rumors he made quite a bit of money that way...

I believe quite a few persons in the early days were guards and bouncers in that time period...

Quite a few books have been written about the days of Hawaii and Pearl Harbor and Honolulu's R and R....

Thanks again, Regards, Gary

 

[gmkuoha]

Gary:
You are correct that any stories that have gone around about Professor Chow has been honorable and positive and this is why he left the Mitosi's camp because he did not like what was going on.

There are several systems today that base their whole training phylosophies on what guards learned from Mitosi during his incarceration and that is why they were mentioned, but I take their training with a grain of salt as I had learned so much from so many people during that era that can refute what they are saying to be any truth.
Grandmaster Kuoha

 

[GAB]

Hi Grandmaster,

Thank you again.

I have heard those stories also... It will be interesting to see what comes out of the Gathering this year that Hanshi Bruce Juchnik will have...It is going to be at Reno.

I hear the last living persons that trained with Mitose and received certificates or Black Belts will be there. We will see it is still early in the year...

Thanks again,
Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

Hi Grandmaster,

I was just mulling some stuff over in the frontal lobe the last few days since the discussion about Professor Chow and AK....

I thought it was interesting that the first book Ed Parker wrote was called...
Kenpo Karate...Sub title.... Law of the Fist and Empty Hand...

When that was written, had Professor Chow changed his Martial Art from 'Kenpo Karate' to Kara Ho? The book was written in 1960 and reprinted again in 1989...

I have read many stories about Professor Chow and his Martial Art.

Bruce Corrigan has an interesting article at his web site that talks about Sijo Sonny Gascon and the early period in Hawaii and when he was in the USA during his years in the Air Force. When he was on the East Coast and West Coast teaching and learning....

He makes numerous references to the Professor, all very interesting...

Do you have the date when he officially changed his Martial Art to Kara Ho?

Any other bits of information that come to mind would be helpful...

Thank You,

Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

Paul Yamaguchi and ???? While you're here what were the teachers present for last years gathering??

Yes Kai, Paul Yamaguchi and Edward Bobby Lowe...

I for one am going to be there, pretty close to my home, I like Reno just for Reno, but to be able to go to this will be really good...

Didn't you go to the Gathering??? I thought you said you taught at the Gathering? Maybe it was Kelly who said that????

To hard to keep up with this...

I have seen the lay out on the new site it will be much easier to follow every thing over there...I will be there if they let me in LOL....

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

Yes I have taught at the gathering, no due to personal stuff i could'nt make it out this year

Since you were there, how about (pm) who was there?

 

[GAB]

* You should contact Sifu John Bishop about the leaneage as there were many holes in that part of the history.
Also Professor Chow would tell me things about Mitosi that I care not to repeat out of respect, but I know for a fact that getting anywhere's in Hawaii as a martial arts in the old days, you had to have knowledge and be able to take care of yourself as you were constantly tried to see how good you really were.
I do know that many stories that stemmed from the prison walls were false and as a former law enforcement officer for many years, I know that is one of the number one rules and that is there would be NO training of the martial arts of any kind while one was incarcerated....period! As some system bases their whole background on a guard during that time, I tend to disbelieve that as I know that a guard caught training would be fired and prosecuted in a heart beat. I also contacted the warden during the time that Mitosi was incarcerated and he told me that he did not even remember him and that they were only a number behind prison walls and that any type of training being done in the arts did not happen. I also spoke to one of the captains that he referred to me which was up there in age at the time I spoke to him and even he stated that he did not know who Mitosi was and that he can guarantee me that there was no martial arts training going on at all. He was also contacted by my neighbor and close friend who just retired after 30 years as a supervisor with the DA's office (investigator) here in San Diego and they both made the same statements. They said that anyone making claims otherwise were not telling the truth as any extensive training that we were speaking of, would eventually be known to them.

Hi Grandmaster,

Actually I did talk to Hanshi about the contact etc. He said that he was surprised that you are saying that, because they did have physcial contact and all.

He does not feel that the person who is representing himself on the boards is really Sam.

Thought I would let you know. He said if he is referrring you to John Bishop,
I don't believe the person because, Sam would know the answers...

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

GAB

You ask a question and when you don't get the answer you want you rant, cry and correct the person whom you asked the question of. If you don't like the answers don't ask the questions

 

[GAB]

Thanks Todd,

Again you have misinturpreted my post, Read it again will you...

What has the person who is supposed to be a fellow leader of an organization and on first name basis with Hanshi, got to say about it???

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

I'm sorry for butting in. But don't ask questions unless you can accept in a mature sane mannner the response

Noone talking on this board was there obviously. So the Jail teachings could of happened. I think most people commented on the probability of it

 

[gmkuoha]

Thanks Todd,

Again you have misinturpreted my post, Read it again will you...

What has the person who is supposed to be a fellow leader of an organization and on first name basis with Hanshi, got to say about it???

Regards, Gary

* Gentlemen...let's be civil. I thought this forum was for people to learn about different styles, not attack each other? Yes, this is Grandmaster Sam Kuoha and I am a good friend of Hanshi Bruce and have supported him in all his endeavors, however in my past experience as a law enforcement officer, I know that hands on teaching of the martial arts have always been a taboo while in jail or prison and this is watched very closely. I was speaking of other systems that guards have come out saying that they trained with Mitosi first hand, but not the organization that Hanshi Bruce heads. The warden at that time and a supervisor both told me that never happened. I don't know whether they just said that in case someone was investigating them and their rules and regulations, but they were both retired at the time I got to speak to them so it wouldn't matter I would think. If you were not a cop, then you wouldn't understand some of the strict rules that they had for prisoners so I am just giving you my professional opinion and hearsay evidence from two men that was in charged of the prison at that time. This is non-admissable in the court of law so you can determine what you wish to believe. I was not there so I cannot say that is the way it happened for sure, but this is what I have gathered in info and as a law enforcement officer for San Diego County, this is how the rules ran. If you need any more evidence ask any law enforcement officer in California, who is familiar with the prison systems and they will tell you the same things.....maybe? So any cops in California, please speak up!
Grandmaster Kuoha