Judo Self Defense

axelb

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It has similarities to an ankle pick which I've seen used in MMA.

I think as with many takedowns, the timing and setup are important to avoid taking a strike.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I think wab25 has it. I suspect the issue is that the versions you show in your video gives less control over the leg and more vulnerability to punches. They can work in MMA. In fact, I have the vague memory that I may have seen similar approaches used once or twice. I just think the success rate will be much lower.
I vaguely recall (the only way I seem to recall anything) seeing some Thai-style fighters use something similar.
 

Gerry Seymour

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In Chinese wrestling, the pants grabbing is illegal. There was one Chinese wrestling tournament that one girl grabbed on another girl's pants. The pants ripped apart and exposed the other girl's naked leg to the public. Since then the pants grabbing was seriously restricted.
It's not so much grabbing the pants, but that the pants make grabbing the leg easier. You get more friction grabbing a sweaty leg with pants than a sweaty leg without them.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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It's not so much grabbing the pants, but that the pants make grabbing the leg easier. You get more friction grabbing a sweaty leg with pants than a sweaty leg without them.
I like to wrap my opponent's leg (under his knee joint) by my arm (above my elbow joint). It's similar to catch your opponent's roundhouse kick.

When you grab on your opponent's leg and if he drops his body weigh on your holding, if you use your

- hand to grab your opponent's leg, it's hard to hold on to it.
- elbow to hold your opponent's leg, it's much easier to hold on to it.
 
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drop bear

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I agree with the overall message - in a format where both strikes and leg grabs are allowed, single and double legs will be dominant takedown methods.

Another thought - the MMA cage floor isnt a super soft landing surface, but its a lot more forgiving than concrete or hardwood. If fights took place on a hard surface, then high amplitude throws (both Judo throws and big double leg slams) might often be fight enders. Would that change the percentages? Double legs can be used as big slams, but most arent. You need to totally capture an opponents body weight to pull those off. (It might also increase the motivation for fighters to stay up when throwing, since you can potentially hurt yourself when you go down with your opponent while throwing on a hard surface.)

MMA don't do slams due to efficiency. It just conserves more energy to run the pipe. You will still get a more reliable finish if you finish in the best position. rather than blowing your wad trying to pick someone up over your head.

BJJ ban slams because they are fight enders. And yet the mat is the same.
 

drop bear

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What's your opinion that "shoulder push single leg" is not commonly used in UFC?

Get leading leg from outside.


Get leading leg from inside.


You need a wide stance to make that work. which you dont always get.
 

drop bear

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Those clips don't show the proper entering strategy.

- Assume you and your opponent both have right side forward.
- You move your left back foot to line up with your opponent's both feet. This way his back hand can't reach you.
- You use your left hand to push on his leading right arm to his left (your right). If you have gloves on, you can use your left forearm to push on his right upper arm to his left (your right). It's just like a "left outside in block". This way his leading right arm can be used to jam his own back left arm.
- You guide his right leading arm under your right shoulder.
- You use right hand to push on his neck, use your left hand to get his right leading leg.
- You then keep moving forward until he is down.

Since your opponent's right arm is controlled under your right shoulder. Also since the angle that you move in, his back hand cannot reach you, You don't have to worry about his right punch, or his left punch.

Here is an example. By using this entering strategy, you will have less chance to be punched compare to the "level change single leg".


head outside single(ish). You get guilotined.
 

drop bear

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by the way coachie coach does do MMA, sort of, in a gi. There are a whole lot more standing clinches.


 

Gerry Seymour

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MMA don't do slams due to efficiency. It just conserves more energy to run the pipe. You will still get a more reliable finish if you finish in the best position. rather than blowing your wad trying to pick someone up over your head.

BJJ ban slams because they are fight enders. And yet the mat is the same.
I think if you have a competition that has throws AND heavy striking, you get a higher-conditioned (not fitness, necessarily) group of competitors. It's a theory - not sure there's any way to bear it out. And at least some (I assume not all) MMA surfaces are raised (haven't seen that in BJJ comps), which can have a significant effect on felt force in something like a slam or high throw.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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head outside single(ish). You get guilotined.
Your opponent's right arm has to deal with your right arm before his right arm can reach to your neck. Also if you are standing on left leg only, your reverse head lock won't have any power. Your opponent's single leg can run you down.
 

axelb

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It happens a lot in Sanda fight. At 0.23 of the following clip. Many different throws are used, but the single leg and double legs are not used in this clip.


You get more points in Sanda for a clean throw, plus it takes more out of the opponent without the requirement to continue on ground, it certainly makes for some big throws! I've seen suplex used fairly often also.
 

drop bear

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I think if you have a competition that has throws AND heavy striking, you get a higher-conditioned (not fitness, necessarily) group of competitors. It's a theory - not sure there's any way to bear it out. And at least some (I assume not all) MMA surfaces are raised (haven't seen that in BJJ comps), which can have a significant effect on felt force in something like a slam or high throw.

Harder floor in MMA. They quite often use a boxing surface.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Harder floor in MMA. They quite often use a boxing surface.
Never been on a boxing surface. I assume it's not as padded as a Swain grappling mat. But boxing rings probably have more give (spring) than the floor they're stood on. That wouldn't apply to the MMA cages I've seen set up on the ground, though, unless that entire floor is suspended (unlikely). But the raised platforms...those might have some give. Dunno - you'd know better than me - I'm just postulating from what I've seen but not felt.
 

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