Is it appropriate to create a new martial art?

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
............. I was shown how universal MA really are when you get to their roots.......

AMEN! Free At last ! Free At Last! The "ultimate truth" about MA is chiselled here today!

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by akja
Very Good!!

Anybody can create a "system" but a "style" will stand the test of time!

This is NOT supposed to come from someone who studies JKD. Isn't the essence of JKD is to be free from the constraint of style?

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by akja
I could understand you wanted to correct something that you have sen both sides to. But your joke answered explained quite well and I'm sure that you knew that.

But my joke was just that - a joke. I do not actually believe that an Englishman needs to speak American English better to understand our method of speaking... Quite the contrary, I believe Americans need to learn how to use their own language better than they do currently.

Speaking "American" sometimes I do use the word you as referring to us or we or me. An example would be. You know if you run the red light, you will get a ticket. That could be taken as "you' our "us" meaning. We are not supposed to run red lights. Its not a great example but it is honest.

Nice try at getting out of having fingered me in your comment, but your use of the word "you" was directed at me personally, and was not an impersonal plural "you" implying everyone in general...

On a second note. considering how close we are to Mexico and the high population of hispanics in America of which I am a part of the hispanic community myself. Should I of take offense to the mispronunciation of the Spanish language.

You most certainly should. I have heard Americans overseas constantly complain and bicker about how the people from their host nation were completely incorrect in their use of American English. I have heard Americans yelling at people in other countries telling them to speak English! Americans are some of the most intolerant people when it comes to non-Americans speaking English. The same standard should apply to anyone, anywhere, trying to speak a foreign language. Kudos for trying, but not caring whether you are speaking it properly or not is nothing more than flaming ignorance in bloom. If you speak a language, speak it correctly. If you write in a language, write correctly. And if you fail to do either, expect to be labeled an ignoramus.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by akja

At todays rates for Karate, Judo, Kobudo and Aikido. Thats an easy $300. a month per student. I think I do see why they don't want us to mix the arts up!!!!!

LOL the irony of economics. The point is not lost.

I am not exactly against mix and match. Just that anybody and his grandpa can do it and you just end up with more JKD-like mess, where for some it is a case of everything goes.

But this is a free world and people are going to do what they want. There is just going to be more and more "American Karate" stuff as time goes by.

That is why when I hear someone says he can fight, I would suggest that he steps up to the plate and goes fight in the ring. :asian: The test of the putin is in the eating. I realize the ring is hardly a true test, but it is the best we have.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

JMHO, I believe that the assertion that "traditional art" is not effective, has only to do with the way the specific practitioners are trained. Of course you can find traditional Martial Artists that cannot fight. That is only because they fail to train in real fighting. Their fault, not the fault of the art. You have many karateka who got their asses kicked by Muay Thai fighters in Bangkok. But you also have karateka who kicked MT fighters ***. You have WingChun artists who got KO in 5 secs. You also have WingChun artists who KO MuayThai fighters. You have Taiji guys who couldn't fight a McDojo kid. You also have Mas Oyama who lost to a TaiJi old guy, after Oyama had prevailed over all challengers.

It is safe to say that it is primarily a function of how hard you train.

Having said that, it should not be overlooked how a particular style may fit your personal preference and complement your physiology better.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
JMHO, I believe that the assertion that "traditional art" is not effective, has only to do with the way the specific practitioners are trained. Of course you can find traditional Martial Artists that cannot fight. That is only because they fail to train in real fighting. Their fault, not the fault of the art. You have many karateka who got their asses kicked by Muay Thai fighters in Bangkok. But you also have karateka who kicked MT fighters ***. You have WingChun artists who got KO in 5 secs. You also have WingChun artists who KO MuayThai fighters. You have Taiji guys who couldn't fight a McDojo kid. You also have Mas Oyama who lost to a TaiJi old guy, after Oyama had prevailed over all challengers.

It is safe to say that it is primarily a function of how hard you train.

Having said that, it should not be overlooked how a particular style may fit your personal preference and complement your physiology better.

AMEN! Free At last ! Free At Last! The "ultimate truth" about MA is chiselled here today!

See! We can all really get along!

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
This is NOT supposed to come from someone who studies JKD. Isn't the essence of JKD is to be free from the constraint of style?

If you read the posts you would know that I study several martial arts.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
LOL the irony of economics. The point is not lost.

I am not exactly against mix and match. Just that anybody and his grandpa can do it and you just end up with more JKD-like mess, where for some it is a case of everything goes.

But this is a free world and people are going to do what they want. There is just going to be more and more "American Karate" stuff as time goes by.

That is why when I hear someone says he can fight, I would suggest that he steps up to the plate and goes fight in the ring. :asian: The test of the putin is in the eating. I realize the ring is hardly a true test, but it is the best we have.

This is very true! There is no stopping any of it. But the true will be here for generations to come. None of us "hybriders" can claim honestly that we will be here tommorrow. Proof is in time!

 

[James Kovacich]

Nice try at getting out of having fingered me in your comment, but your use of the word "you" was directed at me personally, and was not an impersonal plural "you" implying everyone in general

Gambarimasu.
:asian: [/B][/QUOTE]

I really do talk like that but that dosen't cancel out the ignoramus theory.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
JMHO, I believe that the assertion that "traditional art" is not effective, has only to do with the way the specific practitioners are trained. Of course you can find traditional Martial Artists that cannot fight. That is only because they fail to train in real fighting. Their fault, not the fault of the art. You have many karateka who got their asses kicked by Muay Thai fighters in Bangkok. But you also have karateka who kicked MT fighters ***. You have WingChun artists who got KO in 5 secs. You also have WingChun artists who KO MuayThai fighters. You have Taiji guys who couldn't fight a McDojo kid. You also have Mas Oyama who lost to a TaiJi old guy, after Oyama had prevailed over all challengers.

It is safe to say that it is primarily a function of how hard you train.

Having said that, it should not be overlooked how a particular style may fit your personal preference and complement your physiology better.

Are there any links for any of those fights or are they generalizations?

 

[D.Cobb]

I spent 6 years training in American Kenpo, and really enjoyed my time there. I started training in Ryukyu Kempo around 3 or 4 years ago. I wanted to add pressure points to the really nasty s#*t I was learning in AK. Problem was the more I saw at the advanced levels of RK, the more I realised just how similar our different systems are! The main difference that I could see was attitude.
In AK I learnt how to fight and do it well!
In RK I am learning how not to fight.


On another note.....

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Gambarimasu (maybe Gam-barry-mass?)
:asian:

To be honest, I am not familiar with this term, but it would be more like Gaam-barry-muss. And then we would say OOS!
I am better at English. I can speak the Queen's English as she is writ mate!



:rofl: :rofl:
--Dave

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by akja
Are there any links for any of those fights or are they generalizations?

Those are actual accounts, from numerous sources.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by akja
If you read the posts you would know that I study several martial arts.

What I mean was, as a JKD practitioner, you would be unlikely to be using the term "style",

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
What I mean was, as a JKD practitioner, you would be unlikely to be using the term "style",

What I teach is not JKD by definition. In my personal journey I understand the formless form. But I think of my teaching as an art. The formlessness will come for those who search but most people are not searching for it in that sense.

I feel that if you reach your potential, you will find the formless form. Instructors can't teach that. We can just guide the student in the right direction.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Those are actual accounts, from numerous sources.

I figured that it was passed down type of information. I do have a tape that has a Sambo fighter body slamming a Wing Chun fighter in a mixed martial competition. It can be searched out. It was a one time only event called the contenders.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

I can get you the pictures and stories. But it is a pain to hunt them down.

Don "The Dragon" Wilson, Billy "The Jet" Uriquze (sp?) and a boat load of Karateka, Kungfu guys, got their asses kicked by MuayThai fighters. There are pictures of these glorious defeat all over the internet.

Hawkins Cheung, and William Cheung both claimed to have WC fighters that prevailed in Lumpinee Stadium. Bruce Lee claimed to have defeated a MT fighter after one of the toughtest fight in his life. Lee is dead. But the other 2 Cheungs are still around. Someone can ask them about it. But most WC practitioners would unlikely to be standing at the end of 5th rounds at Lumpinee. Not that WC sucks. Just that WC people don't normally train as hard and intense as MT fighters in Thailand.

Mas Oyama and his Kyokushin proteges have prevailed over MT best fighters. Kind of sad that these days, KyokuShin organization is a shadow of its former glory. We have not seen any new "HundredMen Kumite" Champion for a while now. That is what happens when an organization gets too much into the "sport" part of MA. We don't see anyone from KyokuShin going over to Thailand to test their skills anymore. KyokuShin is more interested in infighting among splinter groups these days. *sigh*

Oyama got his *** kicked by a TaiJi old guy. He just couldn't get a hit on the old guy. He ended up studying TaiJi from the old guy. This was after Oyama had defeated all comers. This does not mean TaiJi is the be all end all. 9999 out of 10,000 Taiji practitioners today cannot fight to save their lives.

JKD may be the ultimate unrestrained martial way. 30 years after Bruce's death, we have yet to see another JKD guy proves himself in any competition. You would wonder why that is so, given how sounds and great the theory of JKD is.


It just goes to say that one should be really careful when it comes to generalization about the MA itself.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
I can get you the pictures and stories. But it is a pain to hunt them down.

Don "The Dragon" Wilson, Billy "The Jet" Uriquze (sp?) and a boat load of Karateka, Kungfu guys, got their asses kicked by MuayThai fighters. There are pictures of these glorious defeat all over the internet.

Hawkins Cheung, and William Cheung both claimed to have WC fighters that prevailed in Lumpinee Stadium. Bruce Lee claimed to have defeated a MT fighter after one of the toughtest fight in his life. Lee is dead. But the other 2 Cheungs are still around. Someone can ask them about it. But most WC practitioners would unlikely to be standing at the end of 5th rounds at Lumpinee. Not that WC sucks. Just that WC people don't normally train as hard and intense as MT fighters in Thailand.

Mas Oyama and his Kyokushin proteges have prevailed over MT best fighters. Kind of sad that these days, KyokuShin organization is a shadow of its former glory. We have not seen any new "HundredMen Kumite" Champion for a while now. That is what happens when an organization gets too much into the "sport" part of MA. We don't see anyone from KyokuShin going over to Thailand to test their skills anymore. KyokuShin is more interested in infighting among splinter groups these days. *sigh*

Oyama got his *** kicked by a TaiJi old guy. He just couldn't get a hit on the old guy. He ended up studying TaiJi from the old guy. This was after Oyama had defeated all comers. This does not mean TaiJi is the be all end all. 9999 out of 10,000 Taiji practitioners today cannot fight to save their lives.

JKD may be the ultimate unrestrained martial way. 30 years after Bruce's death, we have yet to see another JKD guy proves himself in any competition. You would wonder why that is so, given how sounds and great the theory of JKD is.


It just goes to say that one should be really careful when it comes to generalization about the MA itself.

JKD is not sport.

It goes against the concepts to be bound by anything except nothing.

If you are referring to a JKD guy that is a competitor. Eric Paulson is a JKD guy under Dan Inosanto and has been competing MMA for quite a while now. So he would be the JKD you have yet to see. He's held several titles.

But looking for a JKD in competition is the wrong place to look as a bottom line. One of the first things you learn in JKD is that there is no sporting aspects to it. It does not mean that an individual can not apply some of the concepts, just that you would be bound by limitations and that would not be JKD.


Benny the Jet went to Thailand to "learn." After "he returned from Thailand" he became undefeated. Also Emin Bostepe supposedly knocked out William Chueng. The Thai fighter that Bruce fought if I'm not mistaking was on the set of a movie and there was many witnesses. It went something like he thought Bruce couldn't really fight and said so.

Talk is talk and it is always going to change. You know how if you say something at one end of the room and let everyone tell the person next to them the story. And what the story sounds like when it reaches the last person.

I would think that there have been many examples of certain arts prevailing over others and always will. That is unless certain arts are not willing to test their skills.

 

[RyuShiKan]

A question for Zhao Dei Wei

I just noticed your new website minus the previously mentioned dan grades and a new name for your style it seems.

http://cqdt9d1.freeservers.com/index.html

Is this the new name? “Mya Ryu Jitsu”

I am just wondering what the new names means.

Mya = ? Is it Japanese?

Ryu = I can think of several meanings in Japanese, not sure which one you mean.

Jitsu = “day” or in another nuance it means “actually” or “honestly”

 

[Mike Clarke]

To return to the original question for a moment

Is it appropriate to make your own system?

I think the short answer is "Yes". but I'd have to qualify that by saying, "Only if you know what you're doing."
It's painfully clear [to me at least] that some on this forum haven't got a bloody clue. They're depending on grades issued by self-made masters and honourary titles that come from places beyond the Black Stump [an Australian term meaning the back end of nowhere!].

If a person has something new to add to a sound body of knowledge, understanding, and ability, then I'd say yes. But a few years here and there doing a bit of this and a bit of that does not give a person any qualifications at all when it come to forming their own 'system'. Mixing a couple of Shotokan kata with a few from Goju-ryu, and then adding a bit of sticky hands and some grappling techniques from Judo, does not make a new style. It just delivers a poor representation of the systems the 'founder' has pilfered from.

Zhao Dei Wei [now known as Mya Ryu Jitsu] is a point in question.
Regardless of the 'founders' attempts to present himself as a 'master' of the martial arts, he continues to reveal himself for the Kuchi-bushi he clearly is. He hasn't even mastered either of the languages he's used for the name of his system so far. Lord only knows what his grasp of the techniques are like? For the sake of his students, I hope they're better than his language skills!

Mike.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Mike Clarke
To return to the original question for a moment

Is it appropriate to make your own system?

I think the short answer is "Yes". but I'd have to qualify that by saying, "Only if you know what you're doing."

I agree with that statement and would like to add that we all “personalize” the art(s) we study merely by studying them.
That is to say we don’t do things “exactly” as our teachers do them……something that is impossible. I can no better imitate my teachers technique than I can walk and talk like him. And to imitate anothers knowledge is merely that……..imitation and not real knowledge. You must make techniques your “own” to truly make them effective.