drop bear
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Yeah. Think of what a bulldozer does.
Is bulking up the answer to making your WC better?
- Thread starter geezer
- Start date
Yeah. Think of what a bulldozer does.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #22
I don't know about Drop Bear, but to me bulldozing is all about power. More like football offensive line or rugby in the scrum, ...Wing Chun ...not so much. In our lineage, the legendary story of Ng Mui and Yim Wing Chun are not told just for fun. They convey a lesson or moral. Kinda like Aesop's fables for martial artists!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #23
Drop -- a bulldozer uses brute force to slowly power its way forward uprooting or crushing anything in it's path:
https://images8.alphacoders.com/436/436955.jpg
Definitely cool, but not the Yip Man lineage WC/WT I learned. Yip Man was strong and wiry, but also fast and agile. Nobody ever called him a bulldozer or tank!!!
Danny T
Senior Master
So all fights happen because of one or the other being a bulldozer. LOL!!
Danny T
Senior Master
My automobile goes forward as well but it certainly isn't a bulldozer. LOL
drop bear
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Your automobile doesn't smash crap out of the way as it goes forward through things.
Automobile? Do people really say that.
Danny T
Senior Master
LOL...we just did
Some may call it bulldozing, but generally it is desperation tactics, or a meat head not knowing much else. Of course though, a bigger opponent may seem intimidating, but charge one and put them off guard, don't need huge muscles for that.
drop bear
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Juany118
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I think there are two things
First, generic. You only have so much time to train. I prioritize this way... The art, cardio, weights. If you don't have the skill it doesn't matter and if you don't have the cardio to sustain both the skill and the muscle you are screwed. I have come out on top more than once because I "gassed" the stronger guy.
Second WC itself. Many of the techniques are designed structurally to use bone and tendon as much as muscle, if not more, for support, so you eventually get diminishing returns imo.
I also think @geezer had the right idea describing it as a spring. A bulldozer just goes. If the wall collapses it either keeps on going or you have to consciously put on the breaks. In WC, if you have to "put on the breaks" you have lost your structure and if the wall (opponent) purposefully collapsed to take advantage of your poor structure you are screwed.
A spring expands (naturally) only so far, and when compressed (unless broken) it does so in a controlled and uniform manner, while still having the the intent to expand. If you know chi sau you understand, to an extent, how it should feel to your body but visually it's not necessarily there for the outsider to see. However I think Tai Chi Chuan push hands is a good visual representation for how one has forward intent without "bulldozing."
First, generic. You only have so much time to train. I prioritize this way... The art, cardio, weights. If you don't have the skill it doesn't matter and if you don't have the cardio to sustain both the skill and the muscle you are screwed. I have come out on top more than once because I "gassed" the stronger guy.
Second WC itself. Many of the techniques are designed structurally to use bone and tendon as much as muscle, if not more, for support, so you eventually get diminishing returns imo.
I also think @geezer had the right idea describing it as a spring. A bulldozer just goes. If the wall collapses it either keeps on going or you have to consciously put on the breaks. In WC, if you have to "put on the breaks" you have lost your structure and if the wall (opponent) purposefully collapsed to take advantage of your poor structure you are screwed.
A spring expands (naturally) only so far, and when compressed (unless broken) it does so in a controlled and uniform manner, while still having the the intent to expand. If you know chi sau you understand, to an extent, how it should feel to your body but visually it's not necessarily there for the outsider to see. However I think Tai Chi Chuan push hands is a good visual representation for how one has forward intent without "bulldozing."
wingerjim
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That is well said. I certainly am not as strong as I was when younger but my skills are better now and I feel just as confident in my ability to use my art if need be and can take on a stronger opponent, but not one of better skill or much greater strength.
anerlich
Brown Belt
Assuming you want to be able to do your Wing Chun (and other physical activities) to an advanced age, you need to look at the strength/bulk aspect from the viewpoint of longevity. Your Wing Chun isn't going to be any good when you are 65 if you are too infirm to practice, or too wrecked from poorly managed physical training to function properly.
Wing Chun and other martial arts are interesting and hopefully effective, and maybe even give you other life skills.
It is highly contestable, despite what people like Hendrik Santo may try to tell you, that they are necessarily the best thing for your health. Every activity, including Wing Chun, Jiu Jitsu, hypertrophy or strength training, has what Steve Maxwell calls "the price of adaptation".
AS you get into your later years, your muscles tend to naturally waste away. A phenomenon called sarcopenia. You need to do some strength training, even bodybuilding style hypertrophy work, to stop or retard this.
Some would have you believe that Jiu Jitsu relies heavily on strength.
I thought four sessions of a week of Jiu Jitsu with Wing Chun or similar training on other days would be enough to stay strong and healthy. In my early sixties I was worried about pushing too hard. But MA training alone wasn’t enough. I was weaker when I turned 62 than I was at 59. I could do staanding backflips at 59, these days the fast twitch explosiveness eludes me (though I haven't given up on getting it back).
I’ve taken to adding strength training at least two days a week, one a day of Simple and Sinister kettlebell work, the other a day of pushups, pullups and bodyweight dips – lots of sets, not that many reps, never to failure. I’m gaining measurable strength and my ability to roll before gassing has improved a great deal.
Jiu Jitsu alone will also lead to muscular and postural imbalances unless corrective and balancing exercise is undertaken. I would postulate the same as true of Wing Chun. All that elbow in stuff, little pulling, all the adduction from that stance.
Bulking up doesn’t interest me. The sport aspect of Jiu Jitsu has weight classes. Staying strong or getting stronger is definitely a priority. My ability to keep my physical capabilities into advanced age depends on it.
Wing Chun and other martial arts are interesting and hopefully effective, and maybe even give you other life skills.
It is highly contestable, despite what people like Hendrik Santo may try to tell you, that they are necessarily the best thing for your health. Every activity, including Wing Chun, Jiu Jitsu, hypertrophy or strength training, has what Steve Maxwell calls "the price of adaptation".
AS you get into your later years, your muscles tend to naturally waste away. A phenomenon called sarcopenia. You need to do some strength training, even bodybuilding style hypertrophy work, to stop or retard this.
Some would have you believe that Jiu Jitsu relies heavily on strength.
I thought four sessions of a week of Jiu Jitsu with Wing Chun or similar training on other days would be enough to stay strong and healthy. In my early sixties I was worried about pushing too hard. But MA training alone wasn’t enough. I was weaker when I turned 62 than I was at 59. I could do staanding backflips at 59, these days the fast twitch explosiveness eludes me (though I haven't given up on getting it back).
I’ve taken to adding strength training at least two days a week, one a day of Simple and Sinister kettlebell work, the other a day of pushups, pullups and bodyweight dips – lots of sets, not that many reps, never to failure. I’m gaining measurable strength and my ability to roll before gassing has improved a great deal.
Jiu Jitsu alone will also lead to muscular and postural imbalances unless corrective and balancing exercise is undertaken. I would postulate the same as true of Wing Chun. All that elbow in stuff, little pulling, all the adduction from that stance.
Bulking up doesn’t interest me. The sport aspect of Jiu Jitsu has weight classes. Staying strong or getting stronger is definitely a priority. My ability to keep my physical capabilities into advanced age depends on it.
wingerjim
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Well the Wing Chun I learn relies on accuracy, economy of motion, relaxed and controlled approach. This does not mean it is weak or feeble, but is actually very strong through training to execute powerful moves using the whole body and striking with great timing and controlling the opponent. Could I do this being stronger, sure. Would I trade my training time to life weights, no because I would prefer skill of force.
