Intro to weapons considerations in a ground grappling context

drop bear

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Finally got around to watch it. Thank you for posting this one.
You hit all the points I've noticed, along with a few others, and have given me a lot to think about. I wish I still had a bjj school with people I'm familiar with, so I could show some of them this video and we could drill.

Regarding some of the issues/complaints, with the audio-I'd agree. I had to put my headphones in, and was fine once I did, but definitely an issue there. Not enough to cause serious headache though. Regarding the size, none of what you did had size matter, and the one time you wanted to demonstrate it wasn't strength, you pulled someone taller in, so no issues there. Regarding not mentioning that someone can have a knife you don't notice...what? I went into the video expecting that to not be fully addressed. I counted around 10 times you explicitly reminded people that was an issue, even with no knives/weapons in play, and how to handle general takedowns/control with that in mind.

There are two mindsets in training. One is concept one is technique.

And I think that is going to be the friction caused here.
 

dunc

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I'll disregard for now questionable statistics and anatomy and summarize your first 3 questions as follows: Do I teach my students that in a (non-sport) environment an opponent might be carrying an inobtrusive, easy-to-deploy, lethal weapon and that they may not even see the weapon until it is too late?

To which I would reply, did you even watch the video or listen to what I was saying in the lesson? The entire premise was that the opponent might have such a weapon on their person and you might not be aware of it. That's why I emphasized immediate control of an opponent's wrists, from a position which allows control of the wrists and control of the body and allows quick disengagement if that control of the wrists or body fails, It's why I emphasized not allowing the opponent to access their belt line or pockets (or your own beltline/pockets if you happen to be carrying a weapon).

As a bonus, that same approach is also very useful and effective if the opponent happens to not have a weapon.

Regarding the final point regarding the most vulnerable areas to a knife, I didn't focus on it in this particular lesson because a knife can inflict serious damage almost anywhere on the body and if you give the knife wielder free movement to execute the sewing-machine style attack I demonstrated in the video they can quite possibly inflict cuts and stabs all over the body in a matter of seconds. If you've reached the point of just trying to protect those "most vulnerable" parts of your body at the expense of the rest of you, you're quite likely in serious trouble already. The tactics which give you the greatest chance of protecting your most vulnerable body parts are the same tactics which give you the greatest chance of protecting the rest of you as well.
100% agree with this
Id add that in my view its a good idea to always overemphasise control of the wrists in a non sporting context. Fish hooks, eye attacks, throat, groin etc, whilst often overrated are not to be trifled with and need respecting

FWIW Ive worked hard to develop my BJJ Game to take these into account and whilst this was initially sub-optimal from a BJJ sporting perspective Ive got it down pretty well now and it holds its own even in that context
 

skribs

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I'll would never make a comment on a martial art that is being shown that I don't know or currently practice (being the BJJ you are teaching).. And I would never reference any videos, for example implying against the methods on what you are posting or showing to refute what you are saying, as I again I don't practice BJJ at all and have no real world experience in BJJ as a self-defensive fighting style,

Respectfully, I do have some questions for you.

1) Do you tell your students that 95% of the time, the knife in question will be a modern pocket knife and will be on clipped inside the pocket itself and not noticeable?

2) Does your students know that a common pocket knife that has a spring assist or manual "flipper" can also be concealed in one hand closed and can be deployed out a ready position OR deployed from a pocketed postion without your students even seeing or knowing that the attacker even has a knife?

3) Do you tell your students, that regardless if they go to 'the ground" or not, and a person has a knife, not only are they not going to see it, they most likely will be cut? Do they have that in mindset when they are training in this manner of BJJ?

4) Do you tell your students regardless if they are on the ground, the most vulnerable areas are not just the throat, but the subclavian artery in the neck? Not just the kidneys, heart, groin and eyes but ALSO the underside of the arms? A lot of people forget that the underside of the arms are the easiest targets.. That is why the arms are favored targets by Kali and pencak silat practitioners.

Thank You for your time and courtesy, reading my questions today.
This is a very accusatory way to ask if he teaches the specific details you believe are most important, which has the added irony that if you watched his video, most of those concepts are covered in the video we're discussing.

I was recently watching a video of a Karateka describing how he tells if a Karate school is good or not. He will ask the Sensei the reason for the Hikite (pulling the off-hand back to the hip during forms). If they say "for power" he will just turn around and walk out, because even though they are correct, there are many other reasons. Which is a very bad test. For one, it's a very specific detail, and doesn't give you an idea of how well they know martial arts. For another, maybe they know all those other reasons, and just didn't deem it important enough to info dump on someone who just came in.

Back to this video.
  1. He does say if you noticed the knife or not. He does say to control the hands in case they're going for a weapon you didn't notice. The specific statistic, even if true, is not the important detail.
  2. He starts off with how to prevent them from drawing a knife, then goes into detail on if they have a knife. Funny thing is the two are very similar: control the hands.
  3. I don't see the relevance in this video of including this information. Typically videos that include every caveat tend to be poorly written rambles from someone afraid of comments such as this ("you didn't mention XYZ therefore this is bad info") instead of just telling the message they are trying to tell.
  4. Again, if you're controlling the hands, you're preventing them from stabbing you wherever.
I could understand your tone if maybe it made sense to criticize his video, but 3 out of the 4 are already answered by the video itself, and the fourth isn't really part of what he's discussing in the video.
 

Scotsman

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knife defence regardless if standing or worse on the ground is very difficult.
If you survive it you織ll not come out of it unhurt regardless what these so called Dojo "Gurus" tell you.
 
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Tony Dismukes

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knife defence regardless if standing or worse on the ground is very difficult.
If you survive it you織ll not come out of it unhurt regardless what these so called Dojo "Gurus" tell you.
Good thing that was the very first point I made in my video. Defense against a knife is dangerous and the very best unarmed defenses are still low percentage. That's why the very first thing I explained in the video was that if you see someone coming at you with a knife your first priority should be to create distance to get away and/or deploy your own weapon.

The rest of the video was dealing with the possibility that if you enter a grappling situation in a self-defense scenario there might be a weapon in the mix that you aren't aware of and so you should pre-emptively work to keep your opponent from accessing it. I also emphasized that if the weapon is present and does come into play and you can't control it, that you need to disengage and exit as quickly as possible. (And your initial entry into the situation should put you in a position where that quick disengagement and exit is possible.
 

skribs

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Good thing that was the very first point I made in my video. Defense against a knife is dangerous and the very best unarmed defenses are still low percentage. That's why the very first thing I explained in the video was that if you see someone coming at you with a knife your first priority should be to create distance to get away and/or deploy your own weapon.

The rest of the video was dealing with the possibility that if you enter a grappling situation in a self-defense scenario there might be a weapon in the mix that you aren't aware of and so you should pre-emptively work to keep your opponent from accessing it. I also emphasized that if the weapon is present and does come into play and you can't control it, that you need to disengage and exit as quickly as possible. (And your initial entry into the situation should put you in a position where that quick disengagement and exit is possible.
I want to jump on the "didn't watch the video but am criticizing it" bandwagon!

You really should mention that in a self-defense grappling situation, your opponent might have a knife. BJJ is silly because it doesn't include knives, and it's almost like BJJ fighters think knives don't exist. If your opponent had a knife, these moves in this video wouldn't work, which is why BJJ is horrible for self-defense!
 

Dirty Dog

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I was asking the OP, in regards to the BJJ that he is training his students. They were just questions. And respectfully, I don't have to link source references to what I posted as it was just again.. questions.
You made claims about the probabilities of certain events occurring. I guess we should just assume you don't actually have any sources, and the numbers were just randomly extracted from some bodily orifice?
 

Buka

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@Tony Dismukes, thanks for the vid. I hope against hope that you do a couple dozen more. On anything you please.

Of course it difficult to compare to the random twenty year old guy filming himself throwing sidekicks in his room so we can all see how cool he is.
 
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Tony Dismukes

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@Tony Dismukes, thanks for the vid. I hope against hope that you do a couple dozen more. On anything you please.

Of course it difficult to compare to the random twenty year old guy filming himself throwing sidekicks in his room so we can all see how cool he is.
I have material recorded for 2 or 3 more already. Just working on editing the video. I should have the next one up within a couple of days.
 

Buka

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I have material recorded for 2 or 3 more already. Just working on editing the video. I should have the next one up within a couple of days.
How difficult is it, the whole editing thing?
 

dunc

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I have material recorded for 2 or 3 more already. Just working on editing the video. I should have the next one up within a couple of days.
Thank you for doing this
I did some videos a while back and whilst the filming was pretty straightforward the editing is a real investment of time and effort (& I didnt find it very enjoyable) so I kinda stopped doing them
Really appreciate what youre doing and the time it takes
 
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Tony Dismukes

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How difficult is it, the whole editing thing?
Not terribly, but I'm still learning what I can do with the software. I'll probably have the process smoothed out over the next few videos. I'll probably start adding more bells and whistles, like freeze-framing an important bit and inserting voiceovers, that sort of thing.
 

Buka

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Not terribly, but I'm still learning what I can do with the software. I'll probably have the process smoothed out over the next few videos. I'll probably start adding more bells and whistles, like freeze-framing an important bit and inserting voiceovers, that sort of thing.
So you need software for that? What kind of software?

I'm not even sure what software is. And if anyone wants to make fun of me for that, go ahead. But also, F.U. :)
 
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Tony Dismukes

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So you need software for that? What kind of software?

I'm not even sure what software is. And if anyone wants to make fun of me for that, go ahead. But also, F.U. :)
Video editing software. There are a lot of available programs, ranging from free to extremely expensive. I'm using a program that JowGaWolf set me up with called Camtasia. (That is, I started using it with my last video. The first two I just recorded on my phone and uploaded as is. )

I'm not even sure what software is.
Software programs are simply the instructions which tell your computer how to do something (send a message, play a video, draw a picture, whatever). As far as how they tell your computer to do things ... how much detail do you want? The most over-simplified explanations can fit in a couple of paragraphs. The in-depth explanations can fill books.
 

Buka

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Video editing software. There are a lot of available programs, ranging from free to extremely expensive. I'm using a program that JowGaWolf set me up with called Camtasia. (That is, I started using it with my last video. The first two I just recorded on my phone and uploaded as is. )


Software programs are simply the instructions which tell your computer how to do something (send a message, play a video, draw a picture, whatever). As far as how they tell your computer to do things ... how much detail do you want? The most over-simplified explanations can fit in a couple of paragraphs. The in-depth explanations can fill books.
I'm good for now. I'll have to have my buddy come over and show me sometime. I have one computer that I do not even have connected to the internet, I only use it for writing.

My old computer died recently. May it Rest In Peace. And I have an Apple computer, the biggest piece of ship that was ever sold, it's good for absolutely nothing. I will eventually take it out to the back yard and shoot it. I'll film it when I do.

Of course then I'll have to have my buddy come over and show me how to post it to YouTube.
 

Pokitren

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The techniques in this case end up looking pretty much exactly the same. (There are techniques and situations where height considerations can change what techniques you use and what they end up looking like, but not for the material in this video.)

Im somewhat limited in my selection of demo partners by who shows up for class that day. I prefer to use higher ranked students for demos. Im 64, so Im almost always taller than my partners. On that day, the only students who were even close to my size were a couple of brand new white belts. So I ended up doing most of the demo with Jeff who was the highest ranked student in class that evening. But hes really short, so it made me look like a big bully picking on a little kid.

When I have the chance and have some big, experienced students in class who are willing to appear on video Ill definitely use them for demos. But that will be as the opportunity arises.
A big bully picking on a little kid sounds funny :)
We are waiting for people who are willing to take part in the video and are suitable in terms of experience and height!
 

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