Intent Yi (意)

[Wing Woo Gar]

S

Yi is not pointing a finger. Yi is the image of movement in your mind, which moves Chi. Yi is the decision to throw the ball into the glove of the receiver. Chi is the connection between your mind and your movement. It's the feeling of moving your arm and releasing the ball in such a way that the ball will end up in the glove. It's the feeling of punching "through your target" when in reality your fist does not pierce the other guy. The video in the OP explains, with all the visualizations, how Yi moves Chi which in turn moves your body.

This taps into subconscious movement, which everybody does, but it can be trained in specific ways to obtain different results. For example, there's a swordsmanship school in Japan that trains to cut in a way that deviates strikes, so no matter how or when the opponent strikes, he will miss and the adept will not. Through Yi/Chi, the adept makes a small spiral movement, and there's almost no impact. Watch the first few kata and listen to the swords.

Dunno about flying through the air. But it's possible to unbalance a noncompliant opponent through minimal contact. For no touch, I cannot think of many plausible hypotheses apart from exploiting the throwee's suggestibility, flinch, weight shift, and/or a combination of the three.

So your answer is no.

 

[Marsha Larts]

A

Do continuous repetitive practice of the form. Why do they need to get a real physical sense of development from me? Real progress is self evident. Do the work consistently and get good correction from a competent instructor. The mentality of “Getting” is counterproductive. The development of ability is a side effect. When this idea of achieving ability is thrown off and abandoned then the practice deepens and our reasons for the practice become the practice itself.

So nothing specific in the way of two-person work? That's telling enough.

As with push hands, if all it takes is repetitive form practice to cultivate the 'skill' demonstrated in the videos windwalker posted, it stands to reason that it would be more widely understood among taiji people.

The same empty platitudes as those in your reply have been said in their many variations for decades. The generic version of which goes something along the lines of; "Just do the right thing with the right intensity for the right amount of time and all will come clear"

 

[Marsha Larts]

I think most people will find internal harmonies only after external harmonies are found and properly aligned. This is part of what I mean when I say there is no mumbo jumbo without the physical reality. The terminology is irrelevant to the practice.

How are the external harmonies found and aligned? What, specifically, would a person be focused on in beginning to understand the method of that discovery and alignment?

Could you give an example of what a raw beginner might be shown in order for them to physically understand it without any mumbo jumbo?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

How are the external harmonies found and aligned? What, specifically, would a person be focused on in beginning to understand the method of that discovery and alignment?

Could you give an example of what a raw beginner might be shown in order for them to physically understand it without any mumbo jumbo?

You have no business interrogating me if you can’t answer your own questions. The onus of proof is on you, not me. First question, come to my class if you want instruction. Second question, raw beginners don’t need to worry about anything other than listening and following the instruction. I don’t sell anything. I don’t give it for free either. I teach those that are willing to do the work. Ive posted this stuff plenty of times. I don’t need to convince you. If you are happy making things up about people with magical powers that’s fine, but you won’t convince me it’s real unless you can do it to me while I do my best to bash the living daylights out of you. If you can do that I will bend the knee and pay you for training. Otherwise save yourself the wasted breath on fairy tales, I’m not buying.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

So nothing specific in the way of two-person work? That's telling enough.

As with push hands, if all it takes is repetitive form practice to cultivate the 'skill' demonstrated in the videos windwalker posted, it stands to reason that it would be more widely understood among taiji people.

The same empty platitudes as those in your reply have been said in their many variations for decades. The generic version of which goes something along the lines of; "Just do the right thing with the right intensity for the right amount of time and all will come clear"

You don’t know a thing about my training or teaching methods. Your supposition about a “skill” being presented in the videos is factually false, unless of course you count charlatanism as a skill. It’s not a platitude for people who have strived and done the necessary work to achieve skill rather than deluding themselves about their magic powers that they imagined into existence. Wuxia can never meet the physical challenge. It is so easy for people to make these clownish claims when no one stands in front of them ready to try them on. Why don’t you go on about your lineage and training and what experience you have in this. Tell me about your training and how you came into your beliefs and skills.

 

[windwalker099]

Your supposition about a “skill” being presented in the videos is factually false, unless of course you count charlatanism as a skill.

Interesting — by what measure do you call what’s shown in the videos “charlatanism”?

In my experience it’s a skill: repeatable, trained through method, and described in traditional theory as a way of explaining what’s happening.

How are the external harmonies found and aligned? What, specifically, would a person be focused on in beginning to understand the method of that discovery and alignment?

In our practice, it starts with “standing” — learning how to stand is the foundation. By adjusting outer alignments, you gradually develop the perception of something deeper inside.

From there, inner perceptions begin to emerge. The harmonies aren’t “connected” so much as revealed and refined. Outer adjustments improve inner perception — outside to inside, then inside guiding outside.

 

[marvin8]

some thoughts :

The Essence of Yang Style Tai Chi
by Wei Shuren


Levels of Practice


Beginner Stage:
Focus on correct posture and hand movements while integrating internal principles.
Avoid rushing or trying to learn too much at once. Each movement should embody the principles of “intent first” (意在先) and “guided by intent” (以意導形).


Intermediate Stage:
Deepen understanding of internal principles and their application in movements.
Use “heart-mind energy” (心勁) to guide movements, focusing on the center of the chest as the source of power.

Advanced Stage:
Achieve a state of effortless flow, where movements and internal energy are seamlessly integrated.
Reach a level of mastery where the body becomes transparent and empty (全體透空), entering a state of transformation (化境).

John Fung, a student of Wei Shuren, push hands with Stuart Shaw...

Stiggy McCool
Oct 26, 2013

This meet-up on the 26th October 2013 occurred after John Fung invited me to come feel his Tai Chi skills for myself. I took him up on his offer and I will let the video speak for itself. We started out with with just basic free-style push-hands with no real emphasis on scoring points by getting the opponent out of the ring. Then we switched to including strikes but only targeting the body.The whole debacle started when I commented that a video (like the one below) that his demonstration was very contrived and wouldn't work against non-compliant people. John Fung challenge me to come to Sydney ... so I did.

• john fung

karrimzz
May 14, 2013

 

[Marsha Larts]

You have no business interrogating me if you can’t answer your own questions. The onus of proof is on you, not me. First question, come to my class if you want instruction. Second question, raw beginners don’t need to worry about anything other than listening and following the instruction. I don’t sell anything. I don’t give it for free either. I teach those that are willing to do the work. Ive posted this stuff plenty of times. I don’t need to convince you. If you are happy making things up about people with magical powers that’s fine, but you won’t convince me it’s real unless you can do it to me while I do my best to bash the living daylights out of you. If you can do that I will bend the knee and pay you for training. Otherwise save yourself the wasted breath on fairy tales, I’m not buying.

How could the burden of proof be mine when you're the one making assertions regarding the internal and external harmonies, and my asking you to share something or your methodology that would substantiate those assertions beyond their being mere assertions?

You are tilting at windmills re: my making things up about people with magical powers. Can you show us where I've done that in this thread? I've made my reasons for participating in this discussion very clear at least a couple of times.

 

[Marsha Larts]

You don’t know a thing about my training or teaching methods. Your supposition about a “skill” being presented in the videos is factually false, unless of course you count charlatanism as a skill. It’s not a platitude for people who have strived and done the necessary work to achieve skill rather than deluding themselves about their magic powers that they imagined into existence. Wuxia can never meet the physical challenge. It is so easy for people to make these clownish claims when no one stands in front of them ready to try them on. Why don’t you go on about your lineage and training and what experience you have in this. Tell me about your training and how you came into your beliefs and skills.

You'll note that I put the word, skill, in single quotes as I'm not really certain what exactly is being demonstrated and have made no claims of any sort. I'm only interested in the ideas without coming at them with my own biases, beliefs, and skills.

What little I do understand (as I alluded to earlier) is that there is a body of work having to do with intent in which intent is the central focus, and that there are instances of the subtleties of that phenomenon playing a role in the way people interact spontaneously, randomly, and by design. It's interesting and might be worth a deeper dive into how it all works.

Clear enough?

 

[windwalker099]

John Fung, a student of Wei Shuren, push hands with Stuart Shaw...

There was also another video from the same day where Stuart worked with one of John’s students, someone closer to Stuart’s own size and weight. Very different results.

I corresponded with John about this years ago. He mentioned that at the time, his skill level wasn’t yet developed enough to show something clearly in that context against someone with both skill and size advantages — at least not without it becoming more of a fight. These things happen.


It’s also worth noting that other students from the Wei shuren’s line are recognized for their martial ability, though those clips don’t seem to circulate as much.

Rather than talk about other people, I find it more interesting to discuss one’s own inquiry into methods and practices.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Reply in this thread is against my better judgment but….

How are the external harmonies found and aligned? What, specifically, would a person be focused on in beginning to understand the method of that discovery and alignment?

Pretty simple actually
Hands Harmonize with Feet
Hips Harmonize with Shoulders
Elbows Harmonize with Knees

Could you give an example of what a raw beginner might be shown in order for them to physically understand it without any mumbo jumbo?

See my above post

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yi is not pointing a finger.

If "pointing a finger" is just a training method, why can one train from actually application such as a punch or a kick? This way you can kill 2 birds with 1 stone, and you don't have to separate "training" from "application".

 

[Badhabits]

As someone who doesn't know a thing about Tai chi. I'm curious as to why these discussions never delve into specific applications from forms or otherwise? These discussions are always so out there. I swear you'd think there are martial arts. And then there's Tai chi. Can someone show this intent stuff through an application like single whip or something?