Instructors sparring and losing

[AceHBK]

How many of you have had the chance to see your instructor spar in a tournament or even against a student and they lost?
Did it change your view of them?

What if it happened more than a few times? Would you look at finding another school?

Does it make a difference if your instructor was a arrogant/ego maniac who thought he was the best and lost or if he was a humble person and lost?

 

[terryl965]

AceHBK it is not about winning or losing it is about competitionand sportmanship. Your past instructor had great sportmanship inthe tournament I saw him in, he held his ground and was beaten that day by the better fighter that day, remember everybody can lose and will.
When a instructor says they are invinceable it is time to find another school, when an instructor says ther better man won that day he is the better man. When an instructor start to make excusses why they lose leave and when an instructor say I did my best and that is that say.
See we all our human we want to win and that is the biggest problem I see in MA today too many ego's and not enough being humble.
Terry

 

[AceHBK]

That is very true Terry. My instructor lost and I didnt think any less of him at all.
Now if they lost all the time.....that maybe a different story but only if they had a huge ego.

I know i wouldnt (and havent) want my family to watch me spar cause I would hate for my g/f or her kid see me lose a match. They see me at practice and all but tournament..I would say I wouldnt want them to watch. I guess it is that fear of lookin vulnerable.

 

[Grenadier]

The martial arts isn't solely about sparring.

There are many folks out there that eat, drink, and breathe sport kumite, and if they are highly talented, and train that hard, then they deserve to win. If anything, I know that there are many excellent competitors out there, that I would be lucky to avoid getting skunked in a USANKF-style match.

The way I see it, if someone can defeat me in a match, then more power to them. I'll simply respect that person's abilities in the area of sport kumite, and know that they earned their victory.

At the same time, though, I also know for certain, that some of these people would have a very difficult time being an instructor. Some of them, if given a class, would not be able to teach students effectively, much less retain them over a long period of time. Not all yudansha have the ability to be instructors. For many of them, the best instruction they can give, is to simply be an outstanding example in class, so that others can feed off them.


For the most part, your students are going to respect you, the instructor, for what you are, and that's as their instructor. If you can keep them learning, and well-motivated, then that's more important than your abilities as a sport kumite competitor.

 

[stickarts]

My instructor won almost every time i saw him but even during a rare loss, he never quit and he never showed bad sportsmanship. I would more likely lose respect if an instructor showed a bad attitude rather than if they lost.
Also, I have known great instructors who were better at instructing than they were as a competitor. Everyone has their gifts.

 

[mantis]

i dont care about losing or winning. i have 3 instructors anyway. now if the 3 of them consistently lose then i'll question the style, and not them.

one of the instructors seem to think really high of himself. If you are sparring (chi sau) with him and you manage to take a successful shot then he'll make sure he beats the crap out of you. i dont care to see him lose, but i care to see him taking it easy on students when he's demonstrating techniques.

 

[Jonathan]

I'd say it's a reminder that nobody is invincible.

Aside from that, sportsmanship is the key here... a modest, or respectful response to losing will earn a good deal more 'points' with me than when someone becomes aggressive and rude.

 

[Ross]

If your system is based around sparring then it may just come down to who's better on the day.

Personally, in my style, their knowledge is what is important.

One of my instructors said to me when I asked him about competition sparring, "Yeah, they may beat me in the ring, but step outside in the street and we'll see who wins".

Sparring is just a competition, a game in the same way that other great sportspeople win and lose. Unless your name is Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan!

 

[MJS]

How many of you have had the chance to see your instructor spar in a tournament or even against a student and they lost?
Did it change your view of them?

What if it happened more than a few times? Would you look at finding another school?

Does it make a difference if your instructor was a arrogant/ego maniac who thought he was the best and lost or if he was a humble person and lost?

Sparring is only one small part of the arts, although some tend to put more focus on it than the other areas. Everyone is going to have their good and bad days. Personally, I'd much rather train with someone who was humble than someone who was arrogant.

Just because someone may not excell in the sparring area, does not mean that I wouldn't be able to find other qualities in them.:ultracool

Mike

 

[Jonathan]

Food for thought: judge an instructor not by their own successes, but rather by those of their students.

 

[green meanie]

Food for thought: judge an instructor not by their own successes, but rather by those of their students.

An excellent point. :asian:

 

[Blindside]

Food for thought: judge an instructor not by their own successes, but rather by those of their students.

But it is nice to have an instructor who can "walk the walk" as well.

Lamont

 

[kroh]

I've heard a couple of top notch JKD instructors comment on this. They never looked at loosing to some one who knew less or had less time as a failure...they looked at it as a learning experience.

Regards,
Walt

 

[Eternal Beginner]

I've seen my BJJ instructor in tournaments, super fights and MMA matches...so far he hasn't lost. But I know when he does, I won't think any less of him because he goes out there and walks the walk. He doesn't just talk, talk, talk but actually is an example to his students.

My karate instructors are considerably older, but recently most of them still competed in a tournament. Not all of them won, but I like the example they set by their gracious losing. It is easy to be a good winner, harder to be a gracious loser. I was also super impressed that they didn't have any "excuses" for not competing - they all did what they were capable of. Some felt that sparring was beyond them so they just took part in kata.

I understand that not all instructors are competitive but I think it is great when an instructor has an opportunity to show his students what heart and tenacity are all about.

Does it make a difference if your instructor was a arrogant/ego maniac who thought he was the best and lost or if he was a humble person and lost?

First of all, I wouldn't train with an arrogant/ego maniac. Secondly, the instructors that I know that are like that don't compete because they have too much to lose by exposing themselves in competition. It is easier to fool your students that they are learning quality stuff if you never have to prove it.

 

[Matt]

How many of you have had the chance to see your instructor spar in a tournament or even against a student and they lost?
Did it change your view of them?

What if it happened more than a few times? Would you look at finding another school?

Does it make a difference if your instructor was a arrogant/ego maniac who thought he was the best and lost or if he was a humble person and lost?

Very recently I sparred one of our black belt students, of whom I'm very proud, and after a great match he beat me. Then he started laughing, and said, "You taught me that!".

I don't think I could have been prouder. Really, what more could I want.

Matt

 

[Gemini]

I don't ever remember ever seeing this many great responses to a thread! Oh btw, AceHBK, it was a good question that as far as I know has never been asked here before. Wish I thought of it... but you did. Kudos to you.

I've always held the contention that sparring ability and instructing ability have very little, if anything, to do with each other. There's an old saying in the professional world that those that cannot do, teach. Well, pretty much the same thing can be said of martial arts and sports. More often than not, a great coach or instructor did not make his name as a competitor. It wasn't until they began coaching/instructing that they found their nitch. The same could be said for great competitors. More often then not, they then fade from glory because they were unable to convey what they knew onto others. Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but for the most part, that's how it works. In my experience anyway.

As far a watching you instructor lose? To some it may matter, the second part of your question was more pertanent. I think Eternal Beginner's last paragraph pretty much summed that up.

I stopped competing as my sons began coming of age. It was too difficult to both coach and compete at the same time. But in all honesty, one of the reasons I stopped was also because I didn't know what they would think if they saw me lose. I didn't want to make the wrong decision because you only get one shot at it. Well, in retrospect, stopping, and not letting them see how I would have (and sometimes did) handle it WAS the wrong decision.

Food for thought: judge an instructor not by their own successes, but rather by those of their students.

Excellent quote! You should add it to the quotes thread.

 

[Kenpodoc]

Martial arts are funny. No one expects the Football coach or the Basketball Coach to beat everyone on the team One on One. Why would we even think that our Martial Arts Coach should be any better. In sports in general the best instructors are not necessarily the most physically talented and most successful competitors.

respectfully,

Jeff

 

[Eternal Beginner]

I stopped competing as my sons began coming of age. It was too difficult to both coach and compete at the same time. But in all honesty, one of the reasons I stopped was also because I didn't know what they would think if they saw me lose. I didn't want to make the wrong decision because you only get one shot at it. Well, in retrospect, stopping, and not letting them see how I would have (and sometimes did) handle it WAS the wrong decision.

Your last sentence is exactly what I am talking about. It is their students (or their children in your case) seeing how a 'winner' loses that is one of the best lessons they can learn.

My children have watched me in competition many times. I lose lots and I have made a point of making I sure I lose in a positive manner. I don't make excuses like, she was bigger, I fought in the men's division so they were bigger and stronger, I was tired, bad reffing, etc., etc. I just give my competitor a great big hug, shake their hand and freely admit the better woman (or man) won that day.

When I turn around and see how my children handle loss I know I've made the right decision by not letting my ego get in the way of a great learning opportunity for all of us.

 

[Kenpodoc]

I stopped competing as my sons began coming of age. It was too difficult to both coach and compete at the same time. But in all honesty, one of the reasons I stopped was also because I didn't know what they would think if they saw me lose. I didn't want to make the wrong decision because you only get one shot at it. Well, in retrospect, stopping, and not letting them see how I would have (and sometimes did) handle it WAS the wrong decision..

I don't compete often but I sypathize with your concern. What I found, however, was that my children loved me and respected me for trying regardless of the results.

Jeff

 

[Kacey]

My instructor has won (international competition) and he has lost - and so have I... sometimes to my students. The question is not whether you won or lost - it is whether you learned something from the experience. If you did, you won, no matter what else happened.