Innovative Wing Chun? A revolutionary new style...?

Tez3

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I think that was referring to you saying "You are a karate guy..."

Indeed it was, he quite definitely called me a guy.

onthechin, I can and will post anywhere there's interesting posts and there's a chance one can learn soemthing, MMA was commented (not in a good way either) on so I commented back. I didn't mention MMA first, I just replied. I don't 'manage' a few guys, we don't manage them, we, and I mean me too, train them. I didn't say my instructor has a BB in TKD btw. You assumed I was an MMA dilettante, I only posted up what we do to show I'm not which you seemed to accept in one post then got snotty in another, it seemed as if two different people were posting under one username so different were the posts.
Anyone is free to post anywhere here, I have a interest in all styles, I love martial arts...all martial arts even the ones I can't or don't do, it's all interesting.
 

geezer

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Indeed it was, he quite definitely called me a guy.

Yes he did. Interestingly, here in the States, most strong accents or regional dialects are fading, and two main accents are emerging: Standard American English and Southern American English. Living in Arizona I speak with the "standard" accent, but we have a lot of people here who speak the generic Southern strain (think of country music, or worse, George Bush). We "standard" speakers use the term "guys" with groups of both sexes as an informal plural of the second person "you". Southern speakers say "y'all", and southern women tend to get really annoyed when they are referred to as "guys"...even in a group. Unfortunately, Onthechin was using the second person singular, so he was just wrong!

Anyone is free to post anywhere here, I have a interest in all styles, I love martial arts...all martial arts even the ones I can't or don't do, it's all interesting.

Just thought this was worth repeating.
 

Vajramusti

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Hi Guys, gals, folks and y'all and all the rest----" innovative" wing chun in the video? It ain;t.

joy chaudhuri
 

simplewc101

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I haven't trained with this guy, so I don't know how far off his "innovative" wc is from the real thing, but I think I know where his interesting take on wing chun comes from...
Yip Man ->
Leung Sheung ->
Kenneth Chung ->
Ben Der ->
Ken Werner ->
Karl Godwin ->
Bill Graves ->
Armando Sainz


I don't want to cause trouble about people's lineages so I won't say more than that.
I guess if he's near by you can try a class or two and see what you think
 

simplewc101

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okay, so I did a little more digging and I found this, written by his sifu Bill Graves:
taken from http://www.jacksonvillemartialarts.blogspot.com/

[h=3]Armando Sainz[/h]
I would like to start out by letting everyone know the "TRUE" facts about Sifu Armando Sainz. He was a student of mine, Sifu Bill Graves, and mine ALONE. He trained with my Sifu Karl Godwin less than 24 hours in 12 years, this doesn't entitle him to refer to Sifu Godwin in any other manner than Sigung. Armando had Sifu Godwin give 2 seminars at the Centerline Academy over the 8 year period in which this facility was open. These 4 interactions with my Sifu Karl Godwin doesn't entitle Sainz to refer to Karl as "his instructor", as it is written in the Macon County News Paper.To verify this, all you have to do is look at the Seminole Wing Chun website, and see that Sainz is "NOT" listed anywhere. Sainz has a propensity to "EMBELLISH" his martial arts history as he sees fit. Sifu Karl Godwin never certified Sainz on his wooden dummy form, as he writes on his web site, Innovative wing chun. I certified Sainz in the wooden dummy form, and he never truly finished all of the training that I offer with this form. Sainz was "Never" the "Sihing" of any of my public classes, Sifu Jonathan Petree was the acting Sihing of my public group when Sainz joined. As a matter of fact, in chronological order, Sainz was the "LAST" senior student in the senior group of 8 seniors that I had certified. He did learn the curriculum that I had offered at that time which he trained. Sainz did train with me for a period of 12 years, although the last 3 years consisted of very sparse training, here and there, nothing consistent. Sainz developed some very good fighting skills, yet he isn't the teacher that he claims to be. Sainz learned some very basic Ju-Jitsu skills from me and proceeded to develop a natural wing chun defense which he refers to as "anti-grappling". Upon the dismantling of Centerline Academy, he left a wake of very confused and misinformed as well as improperly trained students in the Neptune beach area where his school did exist for 8 years.There were only 4 students that Sainz trained that advanced to any recognizable maturity Roger Simmons, Robert Nunes, Timothy Faughn and Casey Curley. Only Nunes continues to train with Sainz. Casey had come to me to seek better training about 1 1/2 years before the Centerline facility closed, Roger Simmons and Casey Curley are Sihing of my school at this time, and Tim Faughn trains there presently as well. The last 2 years of the existence of the Centerline Academy Sainz was rarely in attendance of his own classes and left them to be run by his Sihing Tim Faughn. As a matter of fact , quoted by one of his former students," I never saw Armando unless he was trying to drum up new students or giving interviews to new prospective students". The energy within the school of which he praises, Centerline Academy, was in decline and failed badly.
After a " falling out" and mutual disrespect for one another, I can no longer endorse or support this Sainz in any of his endeavours. Sainz is not recognized under my lineage any more. In the words of Sainz," who needs that lineage crap, it doesn't matter to me and I have no respect for it!". Sainz always had a desire to do things on his own, and now he will have too. Sainz has burnt most of the bridges he had in the Jacksonville area between the people he was involved with in the martial arts and friends of his as well. The only relationships he has in Jacksonville are the one's with his PAYING STUDENTS. And of course, they will say good things about him and he will do good by them, as long as they are PAYING. And though Sainz will dispute these statements, everyone that knows Sainz in the Jacksonville area, knows that this is true.
This article isn't about hurting the reputation of Armando Sainz, yet to properly inform people of his "TRUE" wing chun history and the facts of his real legacy. I can't attest to any other of his claims or deny them, but I've known Sainz since the late Ninties, and I can refute his wing chun history. Greed, Fame and Power are things that can truly corrupt an individual, and when a person alters the truth enough, they begin to believe those alterations. At that point the individual is truly lost.
Since this article was written, Sainz has responded to me. I have several emails which show the "True" nature of the supposedly "Religious" Sainz. He has threatened to slander me or as he put it, "Make it his Life's work to drag your name through the mud". It really puts a "Bad Taste" in my mouth, when people hide behind religion to manipulate things as they see fit. Obviously this is the Sainz character in every aspect. As I stated earlier in this blog, ANYONE THAT KNOWS SAINZ, KNOWS THIS TO BE TRUE. I hope I will not have to post the last series of emails that he wrote me.
 

onthechin

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ok we are all free to post anything we want...fair enough, but this website is set up so people can talk to others who are likeminded...if you have something to say about a style then theres a forum for you...I still feel perfectlty justified in having a go at someone who posts here but has absolutely nothing to say about wing chun...it beggars the question..."Why are you posting here?"...I doubt Im gonna get an answer at least not a coherent one...
 

Tez3

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ok we are all free to post anything we want...fair enough, but this website is set up so people can talk to others who are likeminded...if you have something to say about a style then theres a forum for you...I still feel perfectlty justified in having a go at someone who posts here but has absolutely nothing to say about wing chun...it beggars the question..."Why are you posting here?"...I doubt Im gonna get an answer at least not a coherent one...

I imagine with only 32 posts and a membership of a couple of months you don't feel you know your way around here yet but to take such an elitest attitude that only those who do a particular style can post on a particular section is not in the spirit of MT. You don't actually know what styles people are interested in, you don't know what they may have done in the past, in fact you know nothing about people who post at all. The rules state no personal attacks and no fraud busting. People are encouraged to post, they can post anywhere they like on any subject they like. It's a friendly discussion site not just for people to post on just one subject. It makes for interesting discussions which is what it's known for here. Friendly interesting discussions that is.

If you feel posts are inappropriate you are required to report them to the Mods, not 'have a go' at the posters, you can also put posters on 'ignore' so you don't have to read what they say. 'Having a go' at posters is deemed a personal attack something not allowed here. Just because in your opinion you don't like a post doesn't mean others don't like that post, everyone has an opinion, having yours doesn't make it the 'correct' opinion and the only one allowed on here. Anyway re read the rules, put people on ignore or report them, you know what to do now.
:)
 

onthechin

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Only 32 comments..do you judge people by how many posts theyve made? How sad..
He who angers you conquers you...? I think if that little saying was true then we all would have died a thousand deaths.
 

seasoned

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Only 32 comments..do you judge people by how many posts theyve made? How sad..
He who angers you conquers you...? I think if that little saying was true then we all would have died a thousand deaths.
The great thing about this site is, everyone has an opinion. Some open minded, some narrow minded, but all done with respect.
 

Tez3

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I think the smiley thing showed there was no anger, just a bit of friendly advice to someone who's new. Of course it could be the smile on the face of the tiger roflmao.
 

Xue Sheng

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Only 32 comments..do you judge people by how many posts theyve made? How sad..
He who angers you conquers you...? I think if that little saying was true then we all would have died a thousand deaths.

Actually they judge by the content of your posts....numbers don't matter

and if you want to throw out quotes

"Men are like steel. When they lose their temper, they lose their worth."

And I like Tez and find her post interesting, we don't always agree, but that is ok too. And if someone posts something about MMA in the Wing Chun section and it is relevant to the discussion, and it was, so be it.
 

Marnetmar

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Obviously the techniques are far too dangerous to show to the general public and must be kept secret! Duh!
 

geezer

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Armando -- Interesting quote. I guess that means you all shouldn't judge the quality of my thinking since I'm well known to be absent minded!

At any rate, I enjoyed your clip, although I must say I didn't see much that was especially "innovative" at least in the sense of being controversial. Except maybe incorporating hand-gun defenses as part of WC. But I do know a number of other WC instructors who do teach handgun defense in self defense programs on the side, so I personally don't see any problem there. And the rest of the stuff seems pretty mainstream, especially for those WC groups who teach aggressive self defense applications. I'm thinking guys like Chris Collins (theres a clip posted earlier on this old thread), Emin Boztepe, Victor Gutierrez, Sifu Fernandez (AKA "Fighterman") and others.

So I guess my only question is, why did you post on this old thread from 2012 instead of jumping right in with a fresh new thread and introducing yourself so we could all welcome you to the forum. :)


Hey, I'm back to add a brief note: Armando, I checked your profile and see that you posted here once before way back in 2007, about the time I first came across this forum. Three posts in seven years? C'mon dude! you can share more than that!
 
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StormShadow

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Man... I'm away from the forum a few months and all hell breaks loose.... lol j/k

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
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