Hwa Rang Do Patterns

[aftab]

I was just wondering, I've not seen much video footage of the HRD Hyungs on the internet. Does any have any links to video footage of the patterns they do, as it would be nice to see how they compare with other systems

 

[Kuk Sa Nim]

I was just wondering, I've not seen much video footage of the HRD Hyungs on the internet. Does any have any links to video footage of the patterns they do, as it would be nice to see how they compare with other systems

Personally, I learned several versions of hyungs in HRD. While with WHRDA, I found them to evolve throughout the years. You are probably not going to find much of the forms from the WHRDA on the internet. Certainly not entire forms. They are pretty guarded with all of their materials. You can probably see parts in their demo clips from their main website. You kind of need to know someone who is, or came from HRD to be able to see them. Another possible way is to visit one of their tournaments where they will certainly be used for competition. You can probably find Kuk Sool forms on the internet much easier. They would be very similar, and you could draw pretty good comparisons there.

Hope this helps,
With brotherhood,
Kuk Sa Nim

 

[shesulsa]

Since the material is proprietary, it is quite protected. One might draw certain conclusions as they are so very similar to other previously mentioned patterns.

But yeah, to echo what KSN said, you pretty much have to know someone.

 

[shesulsa]

If you can watch this and subtract some of the kung-fu-like hand stuff, you'd find yourself with a bit of an idea.

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[aftab]

Thank you for the information Kuk Sa Nim and Shesulsa.

In all honesty I didn't expect to find much on HRD forms because of what has been mentioned...chances of finding someone from the HRD community - not so easy for me I guess (my currently based in the UK, which doesn't have much in terms of exotic martial arts).

Thanks for pointing me in the Kuk Sool direction

 

[aftab]

Some Kuk Sool forms if anyone else is interested:

http://www.kswcbl.co.uk/videos.htm

 

[Kuk Sa Nim]

If you are interested, here is a clip of various forms from our art: Modern Farang Mu Sul. There are several intermediate to advanced forms, black belt level forms and lots of weapon forms. There are also plenty other video clips of our art with myself and several of our instructors, that also have forms in them. They are not hard to find. Our forms tend to have a few more elements and certainly other influences than the standard HRD versions. Personally, I LOVE teaching as much as I can to my students, and can't wait for them to learn all the forms and technique sets and so on. I hold about 6-10 black belt camps a year, most here in California, but also in Europe, Puerto Rico and wherever we have a school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn1mGDZZ_B0&feature=channel_page

Hope you enjoy.
With respect and brotherhood,
Kuk Sa Nim

 

[shesulsa]

Farang, Kuk Sa Nim.

I recognized a bit of that kang gum hyung (I've only seen it a few times) and some of the dan gum movements from camp with Master Corona's group. Much of the rest sure looks different to me. These forms are original, no?

 

[Kuk Sa Nim]

Farang, Kuk Sa Nim.

I recognized a bit of that kang gum hyung (I've only seen it a few times) and some of the dan gum movements from camp with Master Corona's group. Much of the rest sure looks different to me. These forms are original, no?

Hello Shesulsa,
Farang! In essence, Yes. Our forms are unique FMS forms. They reflect the diversity of Korean arts that I learned, and being the one who created and/or modified them, I understand their flow and what the movements mean. So, our guys are kinda lucky. This also describes our art, FMS. All of FMS is mainly based on a couple versions of HRD, Kuk Sool, Do Hap Sool and Sun Mu Do. Our art combines in a very fluid and sensible manner, the best elements of these, and makes a very challenging yet rewarding experience for our students. Or, at least that is my goal.

You should recognize quite a bit (depending on how far you got in the "old system", and which version you got....). The Gum Moo Hyung (2nd Sword form) that I first learned from Master Kim was the exact same form I later "re-learned" from JBL. I believe Master Corona should have learned the same form from Master Kim too. With FMS, we maintained the core elements of all the HRD forms thru Yong hyung. Although, the original version of Yong hyung that I learned from Eric Lee was incredibly short and too simple to be a 3rd dan level hyung. We ended "beefing it up" quite a bit. Same thing with the original dan bong set I learned from Master Yum, which was a 1st dan hyung. We kept a version of that shorter and more simple version as one of our half black forms. The 1st dan level dan bong form we use is much more elaborate and appropriate for our black belts.

So, anyway, I'm thinking this kind of stuff is only interesting for folks with our background / history, so I'll stop boring the public.
With much respect and brotherhood,
Kuk Sa Nim

 

[shesulsa]

Thank you Sir!

When I learned Hwarang Do, we had nine long forms, one for each color rank - each was tied to a virtue.

White - In Hyung
Orange - Oui Hyung
Yellow - Yeh Hyung
Green - Gi Hyung
Purple - Sin Hyung
Blue - Sun Hyun
Brown - Duk Hyung
Red - Chung Hyung
Half-black - Yong Hyung

I learned the dan bong form as well, single-man staff, dan gum hyung and another long hyung for first black. That is all separate from the ten short forms, kick tests and basic combinations (kwon bop).

Does any of that sound familiar, sir?

Respectfully,
G. Ketchmark

 

[Kuk Sa Nim]

Thank you Sir!

When I learned Hwarang Do, we had nine long forms, one for each color rank - each was tied to a virtue.

White - In Hyung
Orange - Oui Hyung
Yellow - Yeh Hyung
Green - Gi Hyung
Purple - Sin Hyung
Blue - Sun Hyun
Brown - Duk Hyung
Red - Chung Hyung
Half-black - Yong Hyung

I learned the dan bong form as well, single-man staff, dan gum hyung and another long hyung for first black. That is all separate from the ten short forms, kick tests and basic combinations (kwon bop).

Does any of that sound familiar, sir?

Respectfully,
G. Ketchmark

Farang Georgina,
Yes, I recognize this version of set of forms. It looks like, I want to say, the 3rd evolution of forms I experienced, just before the addition of the Tae Soo Do stuff (which we totally rejected in my school).

This looks like when they added a long form for White, and new Green and Brown forms. When I started with them in '85 there was no long form for white, and purple and brown belts didn't exist. The color belt forms ended with half-black (Sun hyung). Duk, Chung and Yong were 1st, 2nd and 3rd black respectively.

While I was with them, I saw the forms change and get shuffled around about 4-5 times. This doesn't include some of the "old stuff from Korea" that I also picked up from Master Yum and Master Yu Chan Kim. Boy, you are making me dig back with some memories...
Farang!
With much respect and brotherhood,
Kuk Sa Nim

 

[ATACX GYM]

Farang Georgina,
Yes, I recognize this version of set of forms. It looks like, I want to say, the 3rd evolution of forms I experienced, just before the addition of the Tae Soo Do stuff (which we totally rejected in my school).

This looks like when they added a long form for White, and new Green and Brown forms. When I started with them in '85 there was no long form for white, and purple and brown belts didn't exist. The color belt forms ended with half-black (Sun hyung). Duk, Chung and Yong were 1st, 2nd and 3rd black respectively.

While I was with them, I saw the forms change and get shuffled around about 4-5 times. This doesn't include some of the "old stuff from Korea" that I also picked up from Master Yum and Master Yu Chan Kim. Boy, you are making me dig back with some memories...
Farang!
With much respect and brotherhood,
Kuk Sa Nim

I used to train HRD in the late 80's.I miss Master Eric Lee so much! GM Taejoon was ALWAYS the hardcore kinda hardass one,but he could sure KICK.Master Eric had the greatest combo of kicking skill,rolls,breakfalls,hyung,weapon skill,agility,flexibility,grace,total body coordination,strength,and teaching ability I'd known up to that time.And he's STILL one of the best.I heard that the Lees don't speak of him because he fell in love with an American girl.

 

[miguksaram]

KSN,

Do you teach application of form as part of the learning process?

 

[shesulsa]

KSN,

Do you teach application of form as part of the learning process?

I'm not KSN, but I'm on more often, I think, so if you don't mind, I'll kick in here too.

I absolutely teach application - in fact I find that if the student knows what they are doing, they (of course) perform it better. I think it's important to visualize an opponent when you train forms, not only for the obvious reasons (application relevance, purposes of defense and ongoing flow of combat) but it just *LOOKS* better. The technique simply *has* to improve here.

 

[Kuk Sa Nim]

KSN,

Do you teach application of form as part of the learning process?

Greetings everyone,
Well I'm glad I decided to check in today. Good question Jeremy, and the answer is ABSOLUTELY. Part of one of the reasons I love forms is to decipher the various applications. Hyung Bon Hae is the Korean version of the more well known "Kata Bunkai". On the first level, it is most easy to recognize the "impact / hitting" applications of the movements. That is natural, and this is what is usually taught (if applications are taught at all). As one begins to grow and evolve, one can pick up the higher applications of the movements which tend to be more painful and actually, more dangerous. The exact same moves can contain strikes, joint locks, throws, pressure points and also weapon applications.

Since I developed our forms in Modern Farang Mu Sul, I am the holder of the main applications, but I don't like to spoon feed my students. Rather, I like to give them master key examples. And I love to show the weapon correlations in these applications. This was one of the best parts of my training in Korea. One of the arts I studied was Do Hap Sool, and in DHS, EVERYTHING we learned with empty hand, we learned with impact and bladed weapons, and vice-versa. This was very enlightening for sure.

Many instructors here in the US, whether they be American or Asian, tend to hold back the application of forms. Or, worst yet, they teach terrible and non-nonsensical applications (such as a low "X block" to stop a kick. etc.). They do this because they either do not really know or understand the applications, or worst yet, they want to hide and keep hidden the true meanings of the forms. It's a shame.

Well, one of my students has made a video clip on FMS Hyung Bon Hae. His name is Master Nelson Pinto, and he's head of FMS Portugal and our European and Brazil FMS Director. He's a very dedicated and gifted master. You can check it out here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx0EqAV7T6Y&feature=channel_video_title

Alright, I hope this helps. Keep on training hard and don't let anything get in between you and your dreams.

With respect and brotherhood,
Kuk Sa Nim

 

[miguksaram]

Thank you to both.

KSN,

Truthfully I knew that you did, but I was drawing the answer out for the other poster. It is was one thing to learn the movements of the form, it is another thing to understand their purpose. We teach bunkai for full kata. Meaning as you run the kata, the uke attack with techniques that the kata is meant to be executed. As stated already this gives the person a good idea on what is actually happening in the kata and helps explain why you are executing the techniques in the manner presented.

So when does your boon-hae series come out on DVD KSN?

BTW...I will be getting the kumdo series after I return from Korea (Need to save any extra spending cash for the trip first). As things have it I will be starting back up the distance training for FMS during or after Summer once I complete my Shotokan dan testing.

 

[puunui]

Since I developed our forms in Modern Farang Mu Sul

I have a question. Kuk Sa Nim, I know you studied with GM LEE Joo Bang before you went out on your own. Have you ever compared the Hwa Rang Do forms with the Kuk Sool Won forms? I know you live in the bay area and so you have probably seen the Kuk Sool Won forms performed. How are they similar? How are they different?

 

[Kuk Sa Nim]

Good going Jeremy. I knew you did kata bunkai as well. And funny you should say, I have been talking about not only doing more Hyung Bonhae in my seminars, but also to do a dvd or two on the subject.



As for the question comparing the Kuk Sool forms with HRD, as I mentioned in an earlier post here, they are very similar, and in some cases/sequences identical. This is not an accident. I am not only familiar with Kuk Sool forms, but I formally studied KSW a couple times before. I also studied other versions of HRD (ie: not only GM JBL's), as well as several other Korean arts, and they all played a part and influenced the forms in Modern Farang Mu Sul.

It is difficult to describe the details of the forms in these two arts (not to mention a touchy subject...). Feel free to ask me questions in person at my school or any of our seminars.

Hope this helps.
With respect and brotherhood,
Kuk Sa Nim

 

[Sabunimfrank64]

Hello Shesulsa,
Farang! In essence, Yes. Our forms are unique FMS forms. They reflect the diversity of Korean arts that I learned, and being the one who created and/or modified them, I understand their flow and what the movements mean. So, our guys are kinda lucky. This also describes our art, FMS. All of FMS is mainly based on a couple versions of HRD, Kuk Sool, Do Hap Sool and Sun Mu Do. Our art combines in a very fluid and sensible manner, the best elements of these, and makes a very challenging yet rewarding experience for our students. Or, at least that is my goal.

You should recognize quite a bit (depending on how far you got in the "old system", and which version you got....). The Gum Moo Hyung (2nd Sword form) that I first learned from Master Kim was the exact same form I later "re-learned" from JBL. I believe Master Corona should have learned the same form from Master Kim too. With FMS, we maintained the core elements of all the HRD forms thru Yong hyung. Although, the original version of Yong hyung that I learned from Eric Lee was incredibly short and too simple to be a 3rd dan level hyung. We ended "beefing it up" quite a bit. Same thing with the original dan bong set I learned from Master Yum, which was a 1st dan hyung. We kept a version of that shorter and more simple version as one of our half black forms. The 1st dan level dan bong form we use is much more elaborate and appropriate for our black belts.

So, anyway, I'm thinking this kind of stuff is only interesting for folks with our background / history, so I'll stop boring the public.
With much respect and brotherhood,
Kuk Sa Nim

Bore away I find it interesting