Hurting taekwondo

[Daniel Sullivan]

I believe that the pioneers do get disappointed when practitioners only take their Kukkiwon rank and then do nothing with it, or worse, do things to hurt Taekwondo. But I also believe that their focus is and always has been on the big picture, a picture of a unified Taekwondo which includes as many Taekwondoin as possible.

I decided to start a fresh thread on the subject rather than hijack an existing one.

Puunui, you have referrenced 'hurting taekwondo' in some form or another in more than one thread.

To you and to everyone else here, what do you see and hurtful to taekwondo? How do you define 'things to hurt taekwondo?'

This is not a call out, by the way; I'm interested in your answer and that of anyone else who responds.

My thanks in advance for your response.

Daniel

 

[puunui]

From the pioneer's perspective, hurting taekwondo would be anything that tends to cause disunification or tends to have Taekwondo removed from the Olympic Games. Unification and the Olympic Games has been the major policy goals of the pioneers. Pretty much everything that they did was to further these two goals and anything that takes away from these two goals, in their opinion, hurts Taekwondo.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I appreciate the response.

Daniel

 

[ronagle]

I appreciate the response.

Daniel

But thats exactly the kind of direction that makes it sport and not something useful in a real situation. That is not the right ideal to set.

 

[puunui]

But thats exactly the kind of direction that makes it sport and not something useful in a real situation. That is not the right ideal to set.

I would say that the overwhelming majority of taekwondo practitioners out there, who happen to be children under the age of ten, are not in taekwondo for self defense. Self defense is nice, but not the main reason, or even the secondary reason. The self defense perspective really is a minority point of view in Taekwondo, mainly of older adults.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

But thats exactly the kind of direction that makes it sport and not something useful in a real situation. That is not the right ideal to set.

Who are you responding to???

My appreciation of someone engaging in my thread isn't a direction that makes anything sport and is not an ideal. Nor does that appreciation imply that I agree with him either in part or at all.

If you are responding to the points made by Puunui, then quote him.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I would say that the overwhelming majority of taekwondo practitioners out there, who happen to be children under the age of ten, are not in taekwondo for self defense. Self defense is nice, but not the main reason, or even the secondary reason. The self defense perspective really is a minority point of view in Taekwondo, mainly of older adults.

By and large, however, mom and dad do tend to think that their ten and under kids are able to defend themselves, if only from schoolyard bullies, as a result of their taking the class, though that is another discussion.

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

By and large, however, mom and dad do tend to think that their ten and under kids are able to defend themselves, if only from schoolyard bullies, as a result of their taking the class, though that is another discussion.

Daniel

This is why the KKW need to include kid friendly self defense, to many parents believe little johnny is the real deal. I wish somewhere they would put in there textbook or books period what the difference is between poom and dan rank so parent could fully get it.

 

[puunui]

By and large, however, mom and dad do tend to think that their ten and under kids are able to defend themselves, if only from schoolyard bullies, as a result of their taking the class, though that is another discussion. Daniel

Do they really believe that?

 

[puunui]

This is why the KKW need to include kid friendly self defense, to many parents believe little johnny is the real deal. I wish somewhere they would put in there textbook or books period what the difference is between poom and dan rank so parent could fully get it.

On the kid friendly self defense, I can suggest that for the next edition. That is a good idea. Or you can suggest it by writing to Mr. LEE Hyung Sun, the person responsible for the Pan American region at the Kukkiwon International Department. [email protected]

As for poom and dan, there is no difference. It is the same thing for all intents and purposes. If I could I would eliminate poom ranks and allow children to receive kukkiwon dan certification.

 

[Gorilla]

SD,Sport, Demo ETC are all parts of TKD. None of them hurt TKD in and of themselves. It is the few who lack integrity and seek to take advantage of people that give the ART a black eye. Thank God they are few and far between!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Do they really believe that?

Yes. I think that they do. That is the primary reason that many people sign their kids up for a martial art. Taekwondo is incredibly accessible and prolific, thanks in part to its olympic inclusion.

Most parents do not have any aspirations for their kids to be tournament champs. They want their kids to get confidence, discipline, fitness, and the ability to defend themselves, at least against bullies in their own age group.

No, I don't think that they believe that their kids could defend themselves against, say a determined adult attacker, but they may think that it gives their kid a chance at escape.

Even in its sport form, it does give the child tools that he or she would not otherwise have, so in some sense, so I'm not going to say that kids who take TKD can't defend themselves by default. Only that mom and dad generally believe that they can, and perhaps to a greater degree than they may be able to.

Daniel

 

[dancingalone]

As for poom and dan, there is no difference. It is the same thing for all intents and purposes. If I could I would eliminate poom ranks and allow children to receive kukkiwon dan certification.

I am glad to hear you acknowledge this. If you search back in the archives, you'll see various people making a distinction between the two as a justification of sorts in the child BB argument.

 

[puunui]

I am glad to hear you acknowledge this. If you search back in the archives, you'll see various people making a distinction between the two as a justification of sorts in the child BB argument.

I don't know why it is such a big deal that children cannot have a dan rank equal to an adult. It doesn't really make sense to me. As an adult dan holder, the fact that a child could receive a dan certificate as well does not diminish or cheapen me or my martial arts accomplishments in any way. I am not lowered or any less of a person if a child black belt received a dan certificate.

 

[leadleg]

I don't know why it is such a big deal that children cannot have a dan rank equal to an adult. It doesn't really make sense to me. As an adult dan holder, the fact that a child could receive a dan certificate as well does not diminish or cheapen me or my martial arts accomplishments in any way. I am not lowered or any less of a person if a child black belt received a dan certificate.

I do not believe the KKW thinks there is no difference between poom and dan,obviously. It is fundamental that maturity and understanding philosphy are important to dan rank versus poom.
Is this another of the non-compliance deals? I would imagine that the pioneers did and do not want 6 year old dan holders.Besides the poom there are other age requirements for dan levels.
I would not feel cheapened or feel deminished but I can see the reasoning behind the rules here.

 

[leadleg]

Yes. I think that they do. That is the primary reason that many people sign their kids up for a martial art. Taekwondo is incredibly accessible and prolific, thanks in part to its olympic inclusion.

Most parents do not have any aspirations for their kids to be tournament champs. They want their kids to get confidence, discipline, fitness, and the ability to defend themselves, at least against bullies in their own age group.

No, I don't think that they believe that their kids could defend themselves against, say a determined adult attacker, but they may think that it gives their kid a chance at escape.

Even in its sport form, it does give the child tools that he or she would not otherwise have, so in some sense, so I'm not going to say that kids who take TKD can't defend themselves by default. Only that mom and dad generally believe that they can, and perhaps to a greater degree than they may be able to.

Daniel

If you look at some of GM Richard Chuns books especially the white hardback and the black advancing in tkd you will see his curriculum for s/d these are not kid friendly necessarily but if your child were to practice and understand these then they would have quite a few tricks up their sleeve.
This is where I believe the instructors should add to the KKW curriculum if no where else. I mean we are not going to say any art is wholly complete.....are we?

 

[puunui]

If you look at some of GM Richard Chuns books especially the white hardback and the black advancing in tkd you will see his curriculum for s/d these are not kid friendly necessarily but if your child were to practice and understand these then they would have quite a few tricks up their sleeve. This is where I believe the instructors should add to the KKW curriculum if no where else. I mean we are not going to say any art is wholly complete.....are we?

There are Taekwondo books out there that only deal with one step sparring movements. I want to say GM Hee Il CHO has one, and there are others too. I think I have three or maybe four.

 

[bluewaveschool]

I mentioned this in another thread, I have a few of GM Cho's books. The Complete Master's Kick is amazing. The Complete One and Three Step Sparring... not so much. I have used some of the one steps in my class as SD, but some of them are just too complex to be useful in a true SD situation. The SD section of The Complete Martial Artist Vol. 1 has some very nice, nasty things in it.

 

[bluewaveschool]

By and large, however, mom and dad do tend to think that their ten and under kids are able to defend themselves, if only from schoolyard bullies, as a result of their taking the class, though that is another discussion.

Daniel

My kids are able to defend themselves, SD is often one of their favorite parts of the night. We don't do the sport thing at all. Atleast in the 16 years I've been involved in my school, we've never had a competition team, a demo team, any of that. While I would support any student that wished to compete somewhere as andividual, as a school we don't do it. My students are quite happy this way. I don't see the parents believing their kids are learning real SD is a minority mindset. In fact, there aren't any schools in the area that I am aware of that push the sport side. Some teach some really crappy TKD though.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I mentioned this in another thread, I have a few of GM Cho's books. The Complete Master's Kick is amazing.

I have that one. And yes, it is.

Daniel