Home invader gets disarmed, shot, stabbed, and arrested

Sukerkin

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If only we had such a legal response to incidents like this in Britain.

I know that Tez is a strong advocate of things not being as bad as we think but the story I heard today makes me doubtful. Two builders were so sick of being the target of theives that they 'staked out' their own building site. They saw thievery in progress and called the police, who replied that they could not respond in a reasonable time. So the builders took matters into their own hands and detained the thieves until the police could arrive. They have now been charged and convicted of kidnapping.

I rest my case at the idocy of the world.
 

exile

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The thread title reminded me of the goriest stage direction in Shakespeare's goriest play, Titus Andronicus:

Enter Lavinia, her hands cut off, and her tongue cut out, and ravish'd.

Compared with poor Lavinia, these guys got off lucky! And at least in these parts, there won't be much sympathy for them in the court system.
 

arnisador

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Yeah, I predict a promising career in license plate manufacturing for both of them.

(Which you can't do with both your hands cut off, incidentally...)
 

exile

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Yeah, I predict a promising career in license plate manufacturing for both of them.

(Which you can't do with both your hands cut off, incidentally...)

Exactlythey got lucky, I tell ya! :EG:
 

sgtmac_46

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The only thing I can fault the couple for is their shot placement.......could have saved a trial.

Nice backup by the girlfriend with the blade work, though....KUDOS!
 

Tez3

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There's nothing in the law in this country that says you can't do the same to anyone who forces their way into your house, you just have to prove it's reasonable force. And yes killing them if your life is in danger is reasonable force.
People assume our law is softer than those of other countries, it's not, it gives you more leeway than most American laws to defend yourself. A pre emptive strike is perfectly legal here as is defending yourself to death, just make sure it's justified, You can't go beating up a kid just because he jumped over your fence to get his ball back.
It's a fallacy to say that you will be arrested for defending yourself, no one has been charged yet for it. The Tony Martin case is dragged up time and time again but the truth there is that he wasn't defending himself and actually lured people to his house as well as threatening to kill his own brother. That is a more complicated story than the pro gun etc people would have you think. The CPS has never prosecuted anyone for lawfully defended themselves whether in their home or on the street.

The police thanks to the government targets are shorthanded trying to do more paperwork than ever before. If the builders were charged with kidnapping it means the thieves weren't on site, that the builders caught up with them somewhere else and held them in another place this isn't a legal citizens arrest. If they had been caught on site and it turns out they were innocent the most the builders would have been charged with unlawful imprisonment if that.
 

Tez3

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Kidnapping here would mean that someone is taken from somewhere and kept illegally somewhere else. If the builders had caught someone stealing on their premises and locked them in a shed or office until the police arrived the worse that would be is unlawful imprisonment if it was proved the 'intruders' weren't such. If they'd been locked up and kept there for a while or if the police weren't informed immediately leaving them there for a while it would still be that charge. There is no way the builders would have caught someone on their site and then been charged with 'kidnapping' unless they took their 'prisoner' somewhere other than a police station.
 

searcher

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Yeah, I predict a promising career in license plate manufacturing for both of them.

(Which you can't do with both your hands cut off, incidentally...)


Yeah you can, I saw Army Of Darkness. They will attach the proper tools to their forearms.
 

Sukerkin

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With regard to the somewhat off-topic (my apologies, all) report of the pro-active builders; given what Tez tells us, what might have resulted in this ludicrous charge is that they locked the thieves in their van, which may have not been on 'site'.
 

Tez3

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With regard to the somewhat off-topic (my apologies, all) report of the pro-active builders; given what Tez tells us, what might have resulted in this ludicrous charge is that they locked the thieves in their van, which may have not been on 'site'.

Ah well if people stuck to the law lol things would work out better for all around. Taking the law into your own hands is risky, always best to find out what your rights are first. I'm betting too that the builders when they phoned the police didn't say they'd made a citizens arrest and were holding the alleged thieves or that they were bringing them straight to the police station. There's always more to these cases than is first seen as the CPS are as stingy as hell and won't bring cases to court unless something is really criminal.
You can only make a citizens arrest if the alleged crime which you have had to have witnessed carries a sentence of over five years imprisonment or 瞿5000 in fines.

I know it's off topic but I do like to get to the bottom of things....as the actress said to the Bishop (very old Brit joke)
 

bowser666

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I just love to see the bad guys get their due!! Now if only we could apply this to America's Banking System................................
 

Tez3

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I just love to see the bad guys get their due!! Now if only we could apply this to America's Banking System................................

Didn't I read somewhere that suicide was suggested for the bankers?
 
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Deaf Smith

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.
You can only make a citizens arrest if the alleged crime which you have had to have witnessed carries a sentence of over five years imprisonment or 瞿5000 in fines.

So do people overthere have to have a law book with the crimes and fines so they can look up the crime they see happening before they make the arrest?

And if the fine is only 瞿4999 then you kidnapped them? Or if the crime only carried 4 years 6 months then you kidnapped them?

Ok.... I guess stealing from a building is no biggie overthere.

But notice how the police would not even come! And that makes me wonder just how much crime is really reported if they won't even come.

So I suspect crime is quite high.

Deaf
 

Tez3

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So do people overthere have to have a law book with the crimes and fines so they can look up the crime they see happening before they make the arrest?

And if the fine is only 瞿4999 then you kidnapped them? Or if the crime only carried 4 years 6 months then you kidnapped them?

Ok.... I guess stealing from a building is no biggie overthere.

But notice how the police would not even come! And that makes me wonder just how much crime is really reported if they won't even come.

So I suspect crime is quite high.

Deaf


Ah the professor of snarky remarks couldn't resist this one could he?

You have absolutely no idea of the case so you'd be better finding out the details first wouldn't you before running the UK down again. You don't know what town, what police force, what the crime was if in fact there was one committed so commenting on it from a position of ignorance is pointless.

Is there a word for Brit haters? Anglophobes maybe? Stirrers?
 

elder999

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Ah the professor of snarky remarks couldn't resist this one could he??

Hey, I resemble that remark.....

...I may not be allowed to use the very word anymore, but there's only one landsnark-there can be only one snarkmaster-only one man can claim the title of Profesor of snark, etc., etc., etc......:lol:
 

Tez3

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Hey, I resemble that remark.....

...I may not be allowed to use the very word anymore, but there's only one landsnark-there can be only one snarkmaster-only one man can claim the title of Profesor of snark, etc., etc., etc......:lol:

A favourite of mine not to be confused with you, my dear sir!
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/carroll/lewis/snark/

Charles Dodgson went to school five miles from my house, it's still a school though now not a private one. My son attended it.



This being such a crime ridden society of course and the police so totally useless, the building is lying vandalised and useless with bodies lying everywhere. Gangs roam the Yorkshire Dales shooting towns up like the old wild west. Drug pushers patrol the infants schools turning the tots into druggies, every house is burgled and the owners raped and murdered.
But hey, if we all had guns we'd be fine.


Sorry, that's not how things are at all, we haven't had a murder for years, most of us, seeing as this is a country area, do have guns, only for shooting peasants though. Depending on where you are depends on how long the police get to you, if they think it's going to be a while they send the helicopter.
 
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Deaf Smith

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Well here is how our Citizens arrest works:

http://www.criminalattorney.com/pages/firm_articles_citizens_arrest.htm

"The right to making a citizens arrest goes back to our roots in English common law. Historically, before the modern infrastructure of police departments, citizen's arrests were an important part of community law enforcement. Today, citizens arrests are still legal in every state, although state laws pertaining to citizens arrests are not uniform. In general, all states permit citizens arrests if a criminal felony (defined by the government as a serious crime, usually punishable by at least one year in prison) is witnessed by the citizen carrying out the arrest, or if a citizen is asked to help apprehend a suspect by the police. Variations of state law arise in cases of misdemeanors, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party."

Here is a simple one:

"New York State Consolidated Laws hold that:
Any person may arrest another person (a) for a felony when the latter has in fact committed such felony, and (b) for any offense when the latter has in fact committed such offense in his presence. (N.Y.C.L. 140.30)."

Some states limit to felony crimes while others any crime.

But note that the person being arrested had better have committed the crime!

Deaf
 
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