SahBumNimRush
Master of Arts
Quote:
Originally Posted by puunui
Also, the intent was to move away from the long wide unnatural stances and go back to the original narrow relaxed natural stances of Okinawan karate, which from the pioneer's perspective, were time tested and made sense from a longevity standpoint.
Dancing Alone: To be fair, the reason why Okinawan karate uses high stances is because the forms are meant to be fighting drills, at least in the lineages that teach bunkai formally or the bunkai ideas in an abstract fashion. I don't get the same feeling from the KKW forms, although by all means correct me if I am wrong. Instead if forms are simply meant to be a means of training the body, then it might be a good thing to adopt low stances to strengthen the legs as is done in many southern Chinese styles.
Okinawan styles also spend a lot of time with hojo undo physical conditioning, so the need for forms to play a role in physical exercise and strengthening isn't there.
Rather than hijack the original thread, I thought I'd start a conversation on the subject of Hojo Undo training. Since I am in MDK TKD, we do not use hojo undo, in fact I remember our KJN saying a long time ago that body conditioning such as building calluses (both soft tissue and bone) was less important in our TKD training than was emphasized in other forms of Karate because we put so much emphasis on technique. Obviously, if you're in martial arts long enough you are going to build up these calluses. We do train this somewhat, but nothing near what was trained in traditional Okinawan Karate.
I personally think it would be a great adjunct to our current training to implement some hojo undo training in our dojang. Especially since most students are so "soft" these days. I am just curious if any TKD people practice any traditional hojo undo, and if so what do you do?
For those who are unfamiliar with hojo undo training, here's what Wiki has to say about it:
Chi shi (weighted levers) are concrete weights that are attached to a wooden pole. The practitioner strongly grips to the end of the wooden pole (opposite the concrete weight), and moves his or her wrist and arms in motions used in techniques normally used in kata or against opponents. This weighted training helps strengthens the fingers, hands, arms, and chest.
Ishi sashi are hand-held weights in the shape of padlocks, traditionally made of stone.
The makiage kigu (wrist roller) is a weight hanging by a rope from a wooden handle. The practitioner grasps the handle with the weight hanging in the middle, and twists the handle to wrap the rope around the handle. The handle is raised and lowered throughout the twisting to strengthen the wrists.
The makiwara (striking board) is used to practice striking a target that provides resistance. There are two types of makiwara: sage-makiwara (hung from the ceiling) and the more common tachi-makiwara (secured in the ground). Of the tachi-makiwara, there are two variations: one flat and one round. The flat makiwara is created with a board placed into the ground and some type of padding on the top. The practitioner stands in front of the makiwara and strikes the top. The round ude-makiwara has a similar construction, but is round on all sides. This allows for additional techniques to be practiced.
Nigiri game (gripping jars) are ceramic jars filled with sand to different weights. The jars are gripped around a lipped rim. Then, while holding the jars, the practitioner moves in varying stances, in order to strengthen the arms, shoulders, back, and legs.
Tetsu geta (iron clogs) are worn like sandals, but requires gripping the clogs with one's toes. The practitioner then moves around and kicks while wearing these. The extra weight required to move the foot strengthens the leg for kicks.
The jari bako is simply a bowl filled with sand that is used by striking one's fingers into it. This conditions the fingers and fingertips and can also work with a bowl filled with rice.
The "Kongoken" is a metal bar formed into an oval that can vary in weight and is used to condition the arms, legs, strengthen the wrists and core. This was used by wrestlers in Hawaii, and adopted into the Hoju Undo by Chogun Miyagi Sensei.
Originally Posted by puunui
Also, the intent was to move away from the long wide unnatural stances and go back to the original narrow relaxed natural stances of Okinawan karate, which from the pioneer's perspective, were time tested and made sense from a longevity standpoint.
Dancing Alone: To be fair, the reason why Okinawan karate uses high stances is because the forms are meant to be fighting drills, at least in the lineages that teach bunkai formally or the bunkai ideas in an abstract fashion. I don't get the same feeling from the KKW forms, although by all means correct me if I am wrong. Instead if forms are simply meant to be a means of training the body, then it might be a good thing to adopt low stances to strengthen the legs as is done in many southern Chinese styles.
Okinawan styles also spend a lot of time with hojo undo physical conditioning, so the need for forms to play a role in physical exercise and strengthening isn't there.
Rather than hijack the original thread, I thought I'd start a conversation on the subject of Hojo Undo training. Since I am in MDK TKD, we do not use hojo undo, in fact I remember our KJN saying a long time ago that body conditioning such as building calluses (both soft tissue and bone) was less important in our TKD training than was emphasized in other forms of Karate because we put so much emphasis on technique. Obviously, if you're in martial arts long enough you are going to build up these calluses. We do train this somewhat, but nothing near what was trained in traditional Okinawan Karate.
I personally think it would be a great adjunct to our current training to implement some hojo undo training in our dojang. Especially since most students are so "soft" these days. I am just curious if any TKD people practice any traditional hojo undo, and if so what do you do?
For those who are unfamiliar with hojo undo training, here's what Wiki has to say about it:
Chi shi (weighted levers) are concrete weights that are attached to a wooden pole. The practitioner strongly grips to the end of the wooden pole (opposite the concrete weight), and moves his or her wrist and arms in motions used in techniques normally used in kata or against opponents. This weighted training helps strengthens the fingers, hands, arms, and chest.
Ishi sashi are hand-held weights in the shape of padlocks, traditionally made of stone.
The makiage kigu (wrist roller) is a weight hanging by a rope from a wooden handle. The practitioner grasps the handle with the weight hanging in the middle, and twists the handle to wrap the rope around the handle. The handle is raised and lowered throughout the twisting to strengthen the wrists.
The makiwara (striking board) is used to practice striking a target that provides resistance. There are two types of makiwara: sage-makiwara (hung from the ceiling) and the more common tachi-makiwara (secured in the ground). Of the tachi-makiwara, there are two variations: one flat and one round. The flat makiwara is created with a board placed into the ground and some type of padding on the top. The practitioner stands in front of the makiwara and strikes the top. The round ude-makiwara has a similar construction, but is round on all sides. This allows for additional techniques to be practiced.
Nigiri game (gripping jars) are ceramic jars filled with sand to different weights. The jars are gripped around a lipped rim. Then, while holding the jars, the practitioner moves in varying stances, in order to strengthen the arms, shoulders, back, and legs.
Tetsu geta (iron clogs) are worn like sandals, but requires gripping the clogs with one's toes. The practitioner then moves around and kicks while wearing these. The extra weight required to move the foot strengthens the leg for kicks.
The jari bako is simply a bowl filled with sand that is used by striking one's fingers into it. This conditions the fingers and fingertips and can also work with a bowl filled with rice.
The "Kongoken" is a metal bar formed into an oval that can vary in weight and is used to condition the arms, legs, strengthen the wrists and core. This was used by wrestlers in Hawaii, and adopted into the Hoju Undo by Chogun Miyagi Sensei.
