High School Or Adult Ed?

[MJS]

I came across this article in todays paper and thought it was pretty interesting. The focus of it, is discussing whether or not to allow kids, the opportunity to take adult ed. classes rather than finish high school. They interview a 17yo girl, who quit in her sophomore year and went to adult ed instead. She sited smaller classes, less distraction and less overall 'drama' as she said, such as fights, gangs, etc. Apparently she was close to being expelled.

Now, for those that are not familiar with Hartford...it is the capital city of CT. Much of my family, ie: mother, grandparents, great-grandmother, and many aunts and uncles, were born and raised there. At that time, it really wasnt that bad of a place. Not saying that there was no crime, but compared to today, where there are multiple shootings on a daily basis, it wasnt that bad back then. The gang activity is quite high as well as drug activity.

Now, my 'teaching' experience is limited only to the Martial Arts, so I can only base class size, student to teacher ratio, etc. off of that. I know that we have some teachers on this forum, so their input would be great. Of course, areas are going to vary in size, depending on where you live.

So, in your opinion, do you feel that adult ed. should be just that...something for adults, or do you feel that if a student, such as the one in the article, is having difficulty, that they should be able to take the adult ed. classes instead of high school?

I have to wonder if the quality of education is the same. Again, I'm not a teacher, have never done an adult ed. class, so I don't know. I suppose if it meant someone getting an education compared to nothing at all, the AE classes would be good. I do think that there should be a special circumstance though in order to enroll. Just because a 14yo doesnt feel like getting up in the morning and would rather have his/her day free and go to school at night, is an acceptable excuse.

Mike

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

This is interesting and I personally think you would need to take it on a case by case basis. However I am with you about the 14 or 15 year old who just does not want to get up in the morning. Those ones need a quick kick in the pants.

 

[tshadowchaser]

High schoo; offers much beside the school work for teens. they learn to interact with outers and they really start to figure out what friends they want durring those years. Social and work skills are learned and improved upon in school also.
I would say for the majority of teens high school is a good thing but all cases are different.

 

[CoryKS]

If they open it up for high schools students, you're not going to see the smaller classes for long. And if there are a number of high-school kids in attendance the distraction and drama will follow along. Do the adult-ed teachers have the same training as hs teachers? I wonder if they're equipped to deal with an influx of teenagers.

 

[Kacey]

As a teacher, I will start by saying that not all classes/schools are appropriate for all students, and alternative high schools (and in some places, middle schools) have increased the number of students who are able to complete school effectively - and the key factors are often smaller class size and greater control over the behavior of the students, along with the motivation level of the students; many students in alternative settings are there because it is their last (and sometimes only) chance to graduate - and alternative schools often have greater leeway in discipline, and can expel students more easily and quickly than traditional settings.

Does this mean that students who are experiencing difficulty in more traditional settings should be given the option of taking adult ed classes? I really don't think so - it means that we, as a society, need to rethink public education - how it's done, the amount of emphasis placed on it, the respect shown schools and educators, the way progress is measured, how students are disciplined, and so on (I could go on forever, but you get the idea). Right now, education is focused on performance on high stakes, annual tests - not a great measure of improvement or effort, and too easy to throw either direction, by teaching the test, or because a student (or students) don't try, either because they don't care (many don't) or because they don't feel well the week the test is given.

This is a big issue, and goes well beyond the issues raised in the initial post - fixing public education is going to require a shift in the attitudes of the public toward schools and what schools are supposed to do. Schools are supposed to teach academic skills - but alongside that, schools are also taking over for parents in many ways, teaching everything from bicycle safety to stranger danger to sex education, and so on... all the while being told that the schools aren't doing enough because the test scores aren't high enough. There's a reason why so many teachers burn out before they reach retirement.

 

[Drac]

High schoo; offers much beside the school work for teens. they learn to interact with outers and they really start to figure out what friends they want durring those years. Social and work skills are learned and improved upon in school also

You learn to judge people by the way they dress, their weight. speech patterns and athletic ability...Which is way I quit High School as soon as the law permitted...

 

[michaeledward]

My older girl just completed her high school through the evening program - while it is 'adult ed', it is not so labeled. She had dropped out, and moved out in November of her senior year (at 18 years old).

After a year of living on her own / homeless / wherever, she decided that the responsibilities she thought she could handle came at a high price. She moved home, with which one of the conditions was completing her high school education. She chose the evening route.

My take is that it should not be open to all students. I do not think the evening classes are the equivilant as the day classes; no matter how much the adult ed community wants to try and paint it as such.

I think it needs to be an option for those who are trying to come back to school after an absence. But, I don't think they are getting the same education.

Of course, to a certain degree, it doesn't matter whether it is equivilant or not, does it? With 'Accelerated' bachelors degrees at colleges now, a 3 credit college course can be completed in five weeks. I can't believe this is the equivilant of the 16 week courses I took in college. But, the B.A. / B.S. is exactly the same, isn't it?

A high school diploma, whether from the day program, or not, is a high school diploma. It will show a students time and effort - not necessarily accomplishment.

And, after they get hired for a job, we are all measured on our own performance, aren't we? It doesn't matter what the sheepskin on the wall says, does it?

 

[Ping898]

Sounds to me like the principal is looking for an easy fix to his high school dropout problem and hopes cutting off the adult ed route will improve his numbers....all I think it will do it loose more students, the same ones will drop out but they won't seek to continue their education for long, if ever....
IMO the public school systems of america are failing its students left and right. If you are in anyway different they can't handle you and in the absence of any alternative, then yes the adult ed classes should be an option for as long as someone is getting an education, I think that is all that matters....

 

[MJS]

High schoo; offers much beside the school work for teens. they learn to interact with outers and they really start to figure out what friends they want durring those years. Social and work skills are learned and improved upon in school also.
I would say for the majority of teens high school is a good thing but all cases are different.

Good points Sheldon. This is along the same lines as private lessons vs. a group class. IMO, I think it would be more productive for a child to interact with other kids rather than always with people who are older than they are.

 

[MJS]

Sounds to me like the principal is looking for an easy fix to his high school dropout problem and hopes cutting off the adult ed route will improve his numbers....all I think it will do it loose more students, the same ones will drop out but they won't seek to continue their education for long, if ever....

Good point and one that I didn't think about. Is there any incentive to staying in the AE program? If they stop high school, whats to say they will stay in the AE program? Its hard enough to get a good job w/o a college degree, let alone a high school diploma.

IMO the public school systems of america are failing its students left and right. If you are in anyway different they can't handle you and in the absence of any alternative, then yes the adult ed classes should be an option for as long as someone is getting an education, I think that is all that matters....

Many times we hear about the larger schools busing the kids to smaller suburban schools in hopes that they'll get a better education. IMHO, this doesnt seem like the solution to the problem. IMHO, I think it would be more productive to find out a) why the kids are not getting a good education and b) once they find out why, fix the issue.

 

[Ping898]

Good points Sheldon. This is along the same lines as private lessons vs. a group class. IMO, I think it would be more productive for a child to interact with other kids rather than always with people who are older than they are.

No necessarily, there are so many kids out there that simply won't interact with people their own age (Myself included) in HS. If you are seen as the outsider or just have issues relating to people in general than socially HS does very little for you (in my experience) and since you have to eventually interact with people on an adult level is it really the end of the world if that interaction starts at an earlier age.
I remember in middle school I used to each lunch with the school librarian, who was like 60 at the time, and I recall the school administration trying to force me to stop eating with her and eat with the other kids cause they felt I should be socializing with them. I fought it cause I had been with those kids since kindergarten and I knew what would happen, a)I would end up eating alone or b) there would be other people at the table, but no one would talk to me so it would be like eating alone. Where is the benefit to that over sitting and having lunch with someone I will speak to and have a conversation with?....
Learning how to socialize is important and can't be ignored, but I don't think it should be a driving factor as to why someone has to stay in a school where they are likely to drop out over attending night school where they just might have a better shot at succeeding.....