Happy Genocidal Maniac Day! - errrr is this something Americans truly want to celebrate?

[Makalakumu]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

When the real history of Christopher Columbus is taken into account, it becomes incredibly apparent that Columbus was a world class genocidal douche bag who is currently rotting in hell (Yeah I know it's imaginary, but the imagery fits). Why do Americans celebrate this? What does celebrating this say about real American values? 25,000,000 people have been murdered by the American regime and it's cronies in the last 50 years and this history seems to be lost on people...in favor of a myth. Hmmmm, perhaps there is a point here to consider.

Now, I really like the alternative presented in the Oatmeal. Bartolome Day. Imagine if American's celebrated a guy like that? What would that say about American values? How would history play forward if America represented those values?

 

[granfire]

Let me see....
with the usual Christmas marathon of Tora Tora Tora, Midway, D-Day and Pearl Harbor....followed by an endless stream of crime shows like Criminal Minds, L&O, Closer, Major Case....glorification of a serial killer like Dexter.....

Yeah, I think it's just the perfect Holiday.....
</sarcasm>

 

[Tgace]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Day

Many countries in the New World and elsewhere celebrate the anniversary of Christopher Columbus' arrival in the Americas, which happened on October 12, 1492, as an official holiday. The landing is celebrated as Columbus Day in the United States, as Día de la Raza in many countries in Latin America, as Discovery Day in the Bahamas, as Día de la Hispanidad and Fiesta Nacional inSpain, as Día del Respeto a la Diversidad Cultural (Day of Respect for Cultural Diversity) in Argentina, and as Día de las Américas(Day of the Americas) in Belize and Uruguay. These holidays have been celebrated unofficially since the late 18th century, and officially in various areas since the early 20th century.

Eh...I don't sweat it. Celebrating the event that led to the discovery of my nation isn't something I hand wring over.

 

[ballen0351]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

When the real history of Christopher Columbus is taken into account, it becomes incredibly apparent that Columbus was a world class genocidal douche bag who is currently rotting in hell (Yeah I know it's imaginary, but the imagery fits). Why do Americans celebrate this? What does celebrating this say about real American values? 25,000,000 people have been murdered by the American regime and it's cronies in the last 50 years and this history seems to be lost on people...in favor of a myth. Hmmmm, perhaps there is a point here to consider.

Now, I really like the alternative presented in the Oatmeal. Bartolome Day. Imagine if American's celebrated a guy like that? What would that say about American values? How would history play forward if America represented those values?

This is a joke right? Your account was hacked or something I hope

 

[arnisador]

I have to see evidence that Columbus was significantly worse than his 15th century peers before I'll get excited over this. People who owned slaves made great contributions to the founding of the U.S.--to simply judge them by today's standards is unfair and unreasonable. Same for Columbus. Unless people in Spain would've been appalled had they known--and I do know that he did come to a certain level of disgrace over his governorship of the Indies eventually--then he must be viewed in the context of his times. Take him to task over communicable diseases before a germ theory of disease, for example? Nonsense, for the most part.

 

[Makalakumu]

I have to see evidence that Columbus was significantly worse than his 15th century peers before I'll get excited over this. People who owned slaves made great contributions to the founding of the U.S.--to simply judge them by today's standards is unfair and unreasonable. Same for Columbus. Unless people in Spain would've been appalled had they known--and I do know that he did come to a certain level of disgrace over his governorship of the Indies eventually--then he must be viewed in the context of his times. Take him to task over communicable diseases before a germ theory of disease, for example? Nonsense, for the most part.

Was he worse than his contemperaries? Some yes, some no. But it doesn't matter, really. We understand some more fundamental aspects of human rights now and we SHOULD judge the past by those standards in order to understand just how monstrous it was.

This is also what makes examples like Bartolome De las Casas so extraordinary. Whist he's not perfect, he does have a more rational and logical stance on human rights and he did have the moral courage to admit that he was wrong.

The problem with excusing Colombus et al is that it's a tacit admission that there is no rational or logical standards when it comes to human rights. This is plainly wrong in the same way as classifying one group as human and treating them one way and then classifying another group as subhuman and mistreating them.

The bottom ine is that people who still believe in this kind of moral relativism can be lead to do anything to anyone. And that's why Americas foreign policy does what it does. This monstrous idea has turned people into monsters.

 

[granfire]

This is a joke right? Your account was hacked or something I hope

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

Even if the above is over exaggerated (which I am sure) there is really no doubt that the figure of Christopher Columbus was superwhitewashed, Oxyclean and Clorox ain't got nothing on the dirt the history of the winners scraped off the conquistadores!

 

[ballen0351]

Was he worse than his contemperaries? Some yes, some no. But it doesn't matter, really. We understand some more fundamental aspects of human rights now and we SHOULD judge the past by those standards in order to understand just how monstrous it was.

So every one of our founding fathers should be looked upon pooly because they used slaves?

This is also what makes examples like Bartolome De las Casas so extraordinary. Whist he's not perfect, he does have a more rational and logical stance on human rights and he did have the moral courage to admit that he was wrong.

He was a member of the church the same church that you so quickly throw up the atrocities they have done

The problem with excusing Colombus et al is that it's a tacit admission that there is no rational or logical standards when it comes to human rights. This is plainly wrong in the same way as classifying one group as human and treating them one way and then classifying another group as subhuman and mistreating them.

The bottom ine is that people who still believe in this kind of moral relativism can be lead to do anything to anyone. And that's why Americas foreign policy does what it does. This monstrous idea has turned people into monsters.

Im not even sure you live in the same world as the rest of us when you come up with crazy stuff like that. Times are different we have different rules and different standards of morality today then we did 500 years ago.

 

[ballen0351]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

Even if the above is over exaggerated (which I am sure) there is really no doubt that the figure of Christopher Columbus was superwhitewashed, Oxyclean and Clorox ain't got nothing on the dirt the history of the winners scraped off the conquistadores!

So was EVERYONE else from that time. So what

 

[Makalakumu]

So was EVERYONE else from that time. So what

It was wrong. That's what. It was wrong then and still is wrong now.

 

[Makalakumu]

Im not even sure you live in the same world as the rest of us when you come up with crazy stuff like that.

Lets's boil this down. I'm saying, let's have some god damn standards when our society chooses people to celebrate. I'm also pointing out that the lack of standards has been horrific throughout history, all of the way up to the modern day.

So perhaps I do live in a different world. Or as Ghandi said when asked what he thought about Western Civilization, "that would be a good idea."

 

[ballen0351]

It was wrong. That's what. It was wrong then and still is wrong now.

So then we better stop celebrating Washingtons birthday, tear down the Jefferson Memorial, War monuments, and any other slave owner or war hero in our past

 

[ballen0351]

Lets's boil this down. I'm saying, let's have some god damn standards when our society chooses people to celebrate. I'm also pointing out that the lack of standards has been horrific throughout history, all of the way up to the modern day.

So perhaps I do live in a different world. Or as Ghandi said when asked what he thought about Western Civilization, "that would be a good idea."

So did Columbus come to the "new World"? If yes then there you go thats what we celebrate not his politics not his behaviors (which were the norm in his time). Just his accomplishments. You dont want to celebrate it fine dont.

 

[Makalakumu]

So then we better stop celebrating Washingtons birthday, tear down the Jefferson Memorial, War monuments, and any other slave owner or war hero in our past

Lol, you realize the NSA is watching this thread right now.

Again, the importance of standards. All I can say is that it's important to know about the truth. That's where standards begin.

Lastly, my favorite Columbus Day quote so far is this, "so yeah, banks, post offices, and schools are closed on Columbus Day, so **** non-indigenous people too."

 

[Makalakumu]

So did Columbus come to the "new World"? If yes then there you go thats what we celebrate not his politics not his behaviors (which were the norm in his time). Just his accomplishments. You dont want to celebrate it fine dont.

You do know about Leif Ericson don't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Ericson

He "discovered" "America" 500 years before Columbus.

Praise Odin.

 

[ballen0351]

You do know about Leif Ericson don't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Ericson

He "discovered" "America" 500 years before Columbus.

Praise Odin.

Yep and at least thats a better reason to change the day. Its much better then your argument that he was a mean mean man. However how much violence was committed by the vikings if your argument against Columbus was his violence

 

[ballen0351]

Lol, you realize the NSA is watching this thread right now.

Again, the importance of standards. All I can say is that it's important to know about the truth. That's where standards begin.

Lastly, my favorite Columbus Day quote so far is this, "so yeah, banks, post offices, and schools are closed on Columbus Day, so **** non-indigenous people too."

I dont care about the NSA let them read it more nonsense fearmongering.
My kids were in school today. Dont know about you but Ill be going to work here in a few hours as well. You want truth the truth is most men of power back then held slaves, most people that went on to claim lands did so with violence. Its the way things were back then.

 

[Makalakumu]

Its the way things were back then.

I'm also arguing that the same sort of irrational thinking that led people like Columbus to view others as sub humans is still active today. It is more destructive and worse now because of modern technology. The words that describe that kind of behavior we saw back then has changed, but the results are still the same.

Blood and fire.

 

[ballen0351]

I'm also arguing that the same sort of irrational thinking that led people like Columbus to view others as sub humans is still active today. It is more destructive and worse now because of modern technology. The words that describe that kind of behavior we saw back then has changed, but the results are still the same.

Blood and fire.

Welcome to the real world my friend we have been waiting for you

 

[Tgace]

Its odd how many people can get up in arms over "moral relativism" when applied to 500 year old cultures....but are more than willing to apply it to societies that would stone rape victims to death today.

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