Grading requirements

ralphmcpherson

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I am just wondering if there is a set standard of grading requirements with the kukkiwon. From what I understand from reading here there are no coloured belt requirements, if true at what point are there set requirements or is it up to the individual club to set their gradings? I know the forms are set out from black belt on and are the same ones we use from what I understand, but what about sparring, timber breaking, self defence etc, is it up to the club or are there set guidelines to follow? Cheers, this isnt about kukkiwon bashing, Im just thinking that if I better understood the grading requirements I might better understand how the whole 'kid black belt' thing works. Im pretty sure my club has policies in place as far as minimum age goes, but I just cant imagine a very young kid having the physical strength or co ordination to pass. My daughter will be about 12 when she goes for 1st dan and without alot of training between now and then I just cant see her passing (hopefully she doesnt read that:))
 

troubleenuf

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There are not grading requirements for color belt only for Dan ranking and those are minimal. Most schools have more of their own techniques/requirements than what the Kukkiwon requires for their testing at least I hope they do.
 
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ralphmcpherson

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There are not grading requirements for color belt only for Dan ranking and those are minimal. Most schools have more of their own techniques/requirements than what the Kukkiwon requires for their testing at least I hope they do.
Other than the required forms, what are the other compulsory grading requirementfor the dan grades?
 

Master Dan

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Our NW BB Association has been using the same grading format for the last 40 years titled The World Tae Kwon Do Federation test sheet for advancement.

It has a total of 100 points possible in 9 catagories with a minimum of 60 or 60% to recieve a passing grade

20 is possible for Attitude the rest are all give 10 possible points each for.
Attendance
Basid Technique
Poom Se (Pattern)
Sparring both non-contac and full contact
Breaking Techique
One Step Sparring
Self Defense / Weapons
Tae Kwon Do Terminology and/ History

In addition three catagories of personal improvement items are kept in thier permanent records as follows:

Sparring
Balance
Agility
Timing
Combination
Speed
Control
Confidence
Ki Yap
Agressiveness
Other

PoomSe

Correct Patern
Flexability
Speed
Power
Ki Hap
Eye Contact
Agressivness
Balance
Other

Breaking

Breath Control
Concentration
Technique
Target
Other

This testing format is tied directly to a rank advancement sheet that is very specific in rank advancement requirements for all Gups and Dan ranks which then ties back to our association's text book in its 8th edition now. The ultimate goal is to create a well rounded TKD MA person at all levels specifically appropriate for thier age and health at that time with the hope that they will progress for life.

KKW does not review this process only accepts the word of the Master with a KKW number signing the application for Dan or Poom Rank at least until 6th Dan when they do review a thesis that must be written for that and then at 8th and 9th Dan.

I think regardless of any national or international organization a person is blessed to have trained with good instructors one on one.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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I am just wondering if there is a set standard of grading requirements with the kukkiwon. From what I understand from reading here there are no coloured belt requirements, if true at what point are there set requirements or is it up to the individual club to set their gradings? I know the forms are set out from black belt on and are the same ones we use from what I understand, but what about sparring, timber breaking, self defence etc, is it up to the club or are there set guidelines to follow?
Troublenough posted a relevant link that will likely have more answers than I can provide.

Schools are free to set up their own syllabus, but as a general rule, schools start out with basic techniques and the curriculum become progressively more advanced, usually following the forms.

Cheers, this isnt about kukkiwon bashing, Im just thinking that if I better understood the grading requirements I might better understand how the whole 'kid black belt' thing works.
If this is about trying to understand kiddie belts, the KKW curriculum is irrelevant; kiddie belts are a part of most MA programs, regardless of art or organization.

The key to understanding kiddie belts is simple: Kid takes class Kid learns colored belt material. Kid is tested along the way and kid passes tests until they get to end of the geub grades and are tested for their first pum.

Im pretty sure my club has policies in place as far as minimum age goes, but I just cant imagine a very young kid having the physical strength or co ordination to pass. My daughter will be about 12 when she goes for 1st dan and without alot of training between now and then I just cant see her passing (hopefully she doesnt read that:))
Strength to pass what? Are students at your school required to bench press 150 pounds minimum or be disqualified?

Or are you thinking of kids testing with adults?

The kid either knows it or they don't. They can either do the stances and execute the strikes and blocks or they cannot. Presumably, you are partnering them up with people of their own approximate age and size.

Given that young kids have the strength and coordination for gymnastics, there is no reason why a child cannot learn taekwondo.

Daniel
 
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ralphmcpherson

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Troublenough posted a relevant link that will likely have more answers than I can provide.

Schools are free to set up their own syllabus, but as a general rule, schools start out with basic techniques and the curriculum become progressively more advanced, usually following the forms.


If this is about trying to understand kiddie belts, the KKW curriculum is irrelevant; kiddie belts are a part of most MA programs, regardless of art or organization.

The key to understanding kiddie belts is simple: Kid takes class Kid learns colored belt material. Kid is tested along the way and kid passes tests until they get to end of the geub grades and are tested for their first pum.


Strength to pass what? Are students at your school required to bench press 150 pounds minimum or be disqualified?

Or are you thinking of kids testing with adults?

The kid either knows it or they don't. They can either do the stances and execute the strikes and blocks or they cannot. Presumably, you are partnering them up with people of their own approximate age and size.

Given that young kids have the strength and coordination for gymnastics, there is no reason why a child cannot learn taekwondo.

Daniel
In relation to your last question, one of our bb grading requirements is a spinning hook kick to break a medium board (if under 14 years old) and a downspin to thick timber, not many 6 year olds could do this. Another one is we must put together a coreographed fight against 4 attackers, it must be done at full speed and full contact combining the self defence, punches, kicks, throws etc that the student has learnt and must involve some weapons (baseball bat, knifeetc). If it looks coreographed you fail. It took me 6 months of constant practice to get my routine down to a standard where I could pass, during that time I got countless injuries perfecting the routine and constantly had to 'tweak' it till I got it just right. It also had to be original and had to be something I came up with on my own. I just cant imagine a 6 year old doing this. My daughter will have an advantage here having a father who is a black belt at the same club, but I just cant see little 6 year old johnny coming home from school every afternoon, inviting their 4 tkd mates around and spending hours perfecting (and designing) a complex self defence routine out in the back yard with no help from anyone. A 6 year old having the motivation to do this is also questionable. Then there is knowing the 8 palgwe forms and doing them properly and koryo and sparring students of at least one grade higher (usually 2nd or 3rd dans) and holding your own. I respect the fact that grading requirements are different for kukkiwon students and thats fine with me. I think when I hear of 6 year olds getting a black belt I picture them doing it with our grading requirements and just cant work out how they do it so I thought understanding the kukkiwon requirements would help me understand how the kiddies do it.
 

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.. Another one is we must put together a coreographed fight against 4 attackers, it .... must involve some weapons (baseball bat, knifeetc)....

That's pretty easy. Four guys come at me as I am walking home from baseball. I hit one in the ribs with my baseball bat. Next guy I hit in the leg with the bat. The third guy I kick in the nuts. Then I ask the 4th guy, "Do you think a head would explode if I hit it hard with a bat??"
 
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ralphmcpherson

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That's pretty easy. Four guys come at me as I am walking home from baseball. I hit one in the ribs with my baseball bat. Next guy I hit in the leg with the bat. The third guy I kick in the nuts. Then I ask the 4th guy, "Do you think a head would explode if I hit it hard with a bat??"
unfortunately the guy grading cant be the one with the weapons, only his attackers can have a weapon. It also has to seem a bit realistic (as realistic as 1 vs 4 can look, you can use less than 4 if you cant make 4 seem realistic enough, but most use 3 or 4), so generally just one of them will have a knife or in some cases a baseball bat. You must use 'tactics' to win the fight, so if one guy has a knife tucked into his belt, the general idea would be to get him on his own as quickly as possible and finish him off before he gets to use it, although in mine I didnt do that. The best part of it for me was that the only way to get it looking good is literally practice it 1000's and 1000's of times, and once you have done something that many times the techs start to become second nature, particularly if done at full speed. By the time of my grading I was pretty much blocking punches, breaking wrists and flipping people in my sleep:) I personally found the whole experience very beneficial because if Id been asked to practice a particular tech a 1000 times it wouldnt happen, but by making this a grading requirement, disguised as a seld defence routine, I just learnt this stuff the fun way without really realising I was doing it.
 

Gwai Lo Dan

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unfortunately the guy grading cant be the one with the weapons, only his attackers can have a weapon.
Yeah I was just kidding.

I personally am not a fan of the 2 or 3 or 4 on 1 "sparring"; I think it ignores the most fundamental method of self-defense: run! The odds are stacked against you in a 4 to 1 situation, particularly if someone has a knife or weapon. If you're not fat, your better odds of survival would be to run like hell to where there are other people.
 
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ralphmcpherson

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Yeah I was just kidding.

I personally am not a fan of the 2 or 3 or 4 on 1 "sparring"; I think it ignores the most fundamental method of self-defense: run! The odds are stacked against you in a 4 to 1 situation, particularly if someone has a knife or weapon. If you're not fat, your better odds of survival would be to run like hell to where there are other people.
I couldnt agree more, multiple attackers just means get the hell out of there. The SD routine we put together is really just to try to get the student to perform SD techs they know at full speed, off balance, as quickly and effectively as they can rather than just standing one on one with someone, bowing and defending a punch (for instance), I suppose this is a test designed more to pressure test those techs in a more real life, random setting, defending against the sort of things real life may throw at you, such as random weapons, big haymaker punches, 2 guys grabbing you etc. Watching this our GM can pretty quickly ascertain which students are really understanding what they are being taught and which ones are just 'going through the motions'. We are taught to just run for our lives against multiple attackers in a real life situation.
 

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In relation to your last question, one of our bb grading requirements is a spinning hook kick to break a medium board (if under 14 years old) and a downspin to thick timber, not many 6 year olds could do this. Another one is we must put together a coreographed fight against 4 attackers, it must be done at full speed and full contact combining the self defence, punches, kicks, throws etc that the student has learnt and must involve some weapons (baseball bat, knifeetc). If it looks coreographed you fail. It took me 6 months of constant practice to get my routine down to a standard where I could pass, during that time I got countless injuries perfecting the routine and constantly had to 'tweak' it till I got it just right. It also had to be original and had to be something I came up with on my own. I just cant imagine a 6 year old doing this. My daughter will have an advantage here having a father who is a black belt at the same club, but I just cant see little 6 year old johnny coming home from school every afternoon, inviting their 4 tkd mates around and spending hours perfecting (and designing) a complex self defence routine out in the back yard with no help from anyone. A 6 year old having the motivation to do this is also questionable. Then there is knowing the 8 palgwe forms and doing them properly and koryo and sparring students of at least one grade higher (usually 2nd or 3rd dans) and holding your own.
That is a test that I would enjoy seeing!

I respect the fact that grading requirements are different for kukkiwon students and thats fine with me. I think when I hear of 6 year olds getting a black belt I picture them doing it with our grading requirements and just cant work out how they do it so I thought understanding the kukkiwon requirements would help me understand how the kiddies do it.
For starters, since we're talking Kukkiwon, it isn't the belt that they are testing for, but a grade. They test for first pum, which is a child's rank. The belt that they are supposed to receive and wear is a half black/half red belt. This is more for other readers, as I'm pretty sure that you are aware of this, but "black belt" is not a rank. It is just a belt. It is supposed to be specific to dan grades, however, which are only attainable in the Kukkiwon by students fifteen years of age or older.

If I ran a school with a curriculum like yours, a first pum test would cover the KKW material and would cover SD material appropriate to a child, and would probably not include the student choreographing their own fight sequences, but it would cover the material that I had taught them.

Then, when they test for a dan grade, I would require the adult test of them.

Daniel
 
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ralphmcpherson

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That is a test that I would enjoy seeing!


For starters, since we're talking Kukkiwon, it isn't the belt that they are testing for, but a grade. They test for first pum, which is a child's rank. The belt that they are supposed to receive and wear is a half black/half red belt. This is more for other readers, as I'm pretty sure that you are aware of this, but "black belt" is not a rank. It is just a belt. It is supposed to be specific to dan grades, however, which are only attainable in the Kukkiwon by students fifteen years of age or older.

If I ran a school with a curriculum like yours, a first pum test would cover the KKW material and would cover SD material appropriate to a child, and would probably not include the student choreographing their own fight sequences, but it would cover the material that I had taught them.

Then, when they test for a dan grade, I would require the adult test of them.

Daniel
Yeah, thats a good point Daniel. I think the reason our GM doesnt change the test for kids is because they are going for the same grade as an adult. If they were going for a pum belt, different from an adult, then he would probably 'dumb down' the kids requirements, but I assume his way of thinking is that if they want the same bb as an adult they do the same test. In saying that, I have seen some young kids ace the test. I saw a 12 year old girl last year win top points at bb grading. Her SD routine simulated being grabbed/abducted by 2 adults and used only techs that could be applicable to a child situation, she did it very well, it was extremely impressive. Usually people keep their SD to something applicable to their situation, women will usually design one that resembles a potential assault against a woman etc. And you're right, they are awesome to watch, I regularly go along to bb gradings just to sit back and see the SD part. The one my old instructor did to get his sixth dan is the best Ive seen yet, lightning quick, aggressive and done at full speed, really good to see. Ive also seen some that are very ordinary, in which case they fail. If you fail a grading requirement , you fail unless you get a star for sparring which can only be achieved with a knockout. It makes for good viewing when a good student mucks up part of their form, SD or timber break. Basically they pad up for sparring knowing only a knockout will see them pass.
 

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Another one is we must put together a choreographed fight against 4 attackers, it must be done at full speed and full contact combining the self defence, If it looks choreographed you fail.


Sorry but had to poke on this. I understand what you had to do but it just sounds funny.
 
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ralphmcpherson

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Another one is we must put together a choreographed fight against 4 attackers, it must be done at full speed and full contact combining the self defence, If it looks choreographed you fail.


Sorry but had to poke on this. I understand what you had to do but it just sounds funny.
Yeah it is quite a contradiction. You basically have to choreograph it so well that it looks like it wasnt choregraphed:)
 
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