Good Silat Lower Leg Drill Featuring Stevan Plinck!

OP
Brian R. VanCise

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Actually Stevan Plinck is anything but sloppy!!! Plus he is teaching the drill so it is less free flowing than if they are just doing it! ;)
 

tiga

White Belt
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
18
Reaction score
4
Actually Stevan Plinck is anything but sloppy!!! Plus he is teaching the drill so it is less free flowing than if they are just doing it! ;)

Sorry Brian, but I don't agree. I've seen mr. Plinck on multiple videos and a lot of them are sloppy and not 'maha guru' worthy in my opinion. I'm not talking about free flowing but more about details in the movements he does.
 
OP
Brian R. VanCise

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Well in the Silat world there are a lot of opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own and with Silat players they will usually give it to you. The hard thing is understanding someone's motivation with all the back biting and political intrigue. The purging of top students in some arts, etc. Personally I don't care at all for that! All I am interested is skill sets. With Silat I love the lower leg work, off balancing, sweeps and throws! Stevan Plinck has a really good reputation with people I know. Those people in turn have good reputations and that is good enough for me!

Having seen him and others in multiple systems of Silat he moves nicely. Definitely one of the best to ever come out of the Paul De thouars line that I have observed. (observed a couple not so good recent ones) Just my opinion but like you I am entitled to it and feel very, very comfortable with it! ;)

We are going to feel free to disagree on this one! No hard feelings! :)
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,473
Reaction score
3,795
Location
Northern VA
Sorry Brian, but I don't agree. I've seen mr. Plinck on multiple videos and a lot of them are sloppy and not 'maha guru' worthy in my opinion. I'm not talking about free flowing but more about details in the movements he does.

Can you tell us a little bit about yourself to support your opinion? Maybe even share or point us to a better example of the drill? From my outsider's perspective, he seems to be moving efficiently and controlling the space well.
 

tiga

White Belt
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
18
Reaction score
4
Well in the Silat world there are a lot of opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own and with Silat players they will usually give it to you. The hard thing is understanding someone's motivation with all the back biting and political intrigue. The purging of top students in some arts, etc. Personally I don't care at all for that! All I am interested is skill sets. With Silat I love the lower leg work, off balancing, sweeps and throws! Stevan Plinck has a really good reputation with people I know. Those people in turn have good reputations and that is good enough for me!

Having seen him and others in multiple systems of Silat he moves nicely. Definitely one of the best to ever come out of the Paul De thouars line that I have observed. (observed a couple not so good recent ones) Just my opinion but like you I am entitled to it and feel very, very comfortable with it! ;)

We are going to feel free to disagree on this one! No hard feelings! :)

You are right Brian, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No hard feelings from me either! If you can make it work, it's already good. Plinck is entitled to his own flavor, i'm just not sure why he is called 'maha guru'. This titled is usually given to the one with the highest rank within the system (higher then pendekar) and that makes me frown a bit.
 

tiga

White Belt
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
18
Reaction score
4
Can you tell us a little bit about yourself to support your opinion? Maybe even share or point us to a better example of the drill? From my outsider's perspective, he seems to be moving efficiently and controlling the space well.

I am practicing silat/pukulan for a while now and have been around a couple of seminars of Pendekar Paul de Thouars. What I have seen from Pendekar Paul, even at his advanced age, is using subtle movement where a lot of details are important. What i see in the shown video is that he pulls the opponent in the wrong direction (towards him, so that a heavy opponent might fall towards you or it turns into wrestling), and he constantly makes extra steps to correct his balance. Perhaps 'sloppy' is not a good word for it in this video, that's more of a remark from other videos he made. Pulling your opponent in the wrong direction though is a no-no, since you will get in big troubles when dealing with a judo-guy.
 
OP
Brian R. VanCise

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Hi Tiga,

Stevan Plinck as I understand it is now teaching his own flair of Silat which is named Pukulan Pentjak Silat Sera Plinck. Hence his students and other people can call him Maha Guru if they want to. Here is an article by author Steve Perry on Stevan Plinck at his blog: http://themanwhonevermissed.blogspot.com/2007/06/pukulan-pentjak-silat-sera-plinck.html

The pulling action above I would let one of his students or himself comment on. It may be some thing that he personally does and or adapted to how he does Silat. From my perspective having a Silat/Kuntao/Kuntaw background his movement looks very sound. Could you point out the exact time frame you do not like in the video so that we can carefully examine it. I went through the video several times to pinpoint what you were talking about and think I have the time but would like you to clarify it.

I have to agree as well that Pendekar Paul De Thouars moves really well even at his age and always has. Good training over time will certainly give you the necessary subtleties and details to move very, very smooth.

There are more videos here on my site featuring Stevan Plinck:
The Instinctive Edge


The Silat world is always interesting because of the politics involved. Rarely do I find one group saying good things about the other group, etc. (particularly in the western world) it seems that everyone is trying to carve out their piece of the pie and unfortunately they some times run down other practitioners. Having said that there are so many good practitioners out there. Stevan Plinck in my opinion is one of the good ones. Not only in technique but also in personality based on people I know who have met him and vouch for him. He was at the top of the Pukulan lineage under Pendekar Paul De Thouars until they split.
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,473
Reaction score
3,795
Location
Northern VA
I am practicing silat/pukulan for a while now and have been around a couple of seminars of Pendekar Paul de Thouars. What I have seen from Pendekar Paul, even at his advanced age, is using subtle movement where a lot of details are important. What i see in the shown video is that he pulls the opponent in the wrong direction (towards him, so that a heavy opponent might fall towards you or it turns into wrestling), and he constantly makes extra steps to correct his balance. Perhaps 'sloppy' is not a good word for it in this video, that's more of a remark from other videos he made. Pulling your opponent in the wrong direction though is a no-no, since you will get in big troubles when dealing with a judo-guy.

I did see some extra steps, but it seemed to me to be as much dealing with a partner who is learning the drill, so not quite going where he needs to or doing what the drill seeks, so Plinck is adjusting and dealing with that. Personally -- I give more points for that than doing a pretty, seemless drill, because the real world seldom goes exactly by the numbers...
 

tiga

White Belt
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
18
Reaction score
4
Don't get me wrong Stevan Plinck is still a decent practitioner, regardless of the flaws in execution (who obviously everybody has). From a technical point of view though, i would not try to copy the movements from a video clip like this since there are some flaws in using this as an application. A serious practitioner however will find the flaws themselfves.
 
OP
Brian R. VanCise

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Tiga, could you point out the exact time frame you do not like in the video so that we can carefully examine it. Watch the video and scroll along at the bottom of the moving bar and it will give you the time frame in the video. Then you can tell us and we will know exactly what you do not like in the movement.
 

tiga

White Belt
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
18
Reaction score
4
Tiga, could you point out the exact time frame you do not like in the video so that we can carefully examine it. Watch the video and scroll along at the bottom of the moving bar and it will give you the time frame in the video. Then you can tell us and we will know exactly what you do not like in the movement.

Eh for instance the first 50 seconds where he sets up for a 'beset' he pulls the hands towards his own hip. Try that with a judo guy, he might use that, and if not but i'ts just a heavy guy he might fall on top of you, which is not what you want. Same at the end.
 
OP
Brian R. VanCise

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Hey Tiga,

Thanks for the reply. There is always during the movement of any technique a potential for several counter moves. One of the things I harp on a lot is that instructors some times do not delve into that enough when teaching their students. (the counters) This is of course no difference there is always a potential counter move. However, with the leverage ie. forearm along collar bone and hand along neck that Stevan is doing does that not eliminate the counter once that goes into effect? It is harder to counter once your base or body structure is compromised. This is in the end just one variation of this basic sweep which I will show another later.

I would venture to say that I can find the same technique done similarly in many videos:

Take for instance here at the 29 second mark: (note he is moving faster because he is showing and not teaching so that in turn makes a counter that much more difficult)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P-HP6RwXn4

Walter Van De Broke also sets up the sweep similarly here at the 35 second mark and the 43 second mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqE-9v-XYSU

You can see Mike Farrone do the same thing here around the 135 mark albeit he does not grab but the hand etc. is in the same place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg6cFdFLwfk

Mike Farrone also does the same thing in this video a few time. ie. the positioning is the same but instead of fully sweeping the guy he pulverizes him with strikes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrGRicyMsic

You can see the same set up here for a hip throw by Dan Inosanto at 14:18 mark and then later Pak Vic utilizing the exact same setup for the sweep at the 26:45 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV0CRai1o74&feature=player_embedded



Now as we both know this type of sweep can be performed also with the arm on the inside which makes it a little harder to counter but not impossible as shown in this video several times. This is the variation I was referencing earlier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDZS3bitcEs

I think we need to take Stevan Plinck's video clip as what it is a teaching moment, where he is showing a lower line set up for the legs. As that I think it is pretty good!
 

tiga

White Belt
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
18
Reaction score
4
Thanks for the extensive reply. I'm afraid i still see some distinct differences between the other variations you posted and the 'original' from mr. Plinck. But i'm afraid i won't manage to explain that properly through posting on a forum. Some stuff is better shown and felt directly without a video. But having felt a number of those practitioners of the videos I know there are small, but important differences in execution.

Anyway, nice to have a more technical discussion for a change.
 
OP
Brian R. VanCise

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
No problem. I enjoy technical discussions. With the same technique there is quite a few variations that you can perform. Maybe you do not like how Stevan Plinck does it and that is cool. I more in line think it is a teaching segment with variation but we are cool.
 

Latest Discussions

Top