Good Blackbelt Test

[Archtkd]

The subject of higher dan testing has come up in other threads and the links below lead to what I believe is a good testing of 3rd-6th dan ITF practitioners in Argentina.

I’m a Kukkiwon guy, but I really like this “old school” event, presided over by just two grandmasters in a dojang. Only the testees are in the room, a reprieve from the loud cheering “fans,” we sometimes see at mass produced tests. A kids' testing, where the parents, uncles and grannies, can attend is one thing, but I think blackbelt adult testing should be on the quite dignified side. The length of this event also seems right compared to the misguided marathons of pain and torture that some of us believe a blackbelt test ought to be.

 

[KELLYG]

Nice video thanks. (I just saw the first one though) I think that after a certain level the test should be focused more on the improvement of technique as opposed to the grueling endurance testing. I feel that the hard/grueling tests are applicable as well. Most people don't test there metel ofte, or ever to find where their personal limits are. In our school the tests are pretty hard up 3rd going to 4th then they are more like the one in the video.

 

[dancingalone]

Nice video thanks. (I just saw the first one though) I think that after a certain level the test should be focused more on the improvement of technique as opposed to the grueling endurance testing. I feel that the hard/grueling tests are applicable as well. Most people don't test there metel ofte, or ever to find where their personal limits are. In our school the tests are pretty hard up 3rd going to 4th then they are more like the one in the video.

Sixth dan is at least master level in ITF right? I would have liked to have seen some teaching done by the candidates to show they can communicate their knowledge to others.

 

[KELLYG]

Dancingalone,

I do not know much about ITF belt levels. In WTF, 6th degree is two levels higher than master. As far as teaching goes for me being a requirement not so much. There are a lot of people out there, including myself, that have no desire or interpersonal skills to teach. I am a perpetual student, that is not to say that I won't show people something if asked, but standing in front of a group and teaching horrifies me.

 

[dancingalone]

I appreciate that, Kelly. I myself think the black belt rank should be separated from instructorship as the two can be different skill sets.

I'm going off the idea of a "master" however. I don't know if a 6th dan in the ITF would be considered a master or not, but it seems to me that attaining such a high rank should involve some type of give back to the art. Generally that means teaching to me.

How does it work with KKW ranks? Can you achieve the higher ranks (say past 4th dan) without teaching and bringing other students to the rank of black belts themselves? Of course the chances of one making it that far are pretty slim without being drafted to teach a class here or there...

 

[KELLYG]

Where I train there are several 4th degree students some are instructors some have never had seat time in leading classes. But all higher ranked students are able to assist when necessary, myself included.

 

[Archtkd]

Sixth dan is at least master level in ITF right? I would have liked to have seen some teaching done by the candidates to show they can communicate their knowledge to others.

Good point. I'm not sure how the ITF system works. In the videos, one of the testees seems to be giving commands and demonstrating what's to done, and I wonder whether that covers the teaching portion of the test.

 

[Master K]

I believe it is 7th Dan that you are considered a Master in the ITF. At least that is what it was quite some time ago.

 

[Archtkd]

How does it work with KKW ranks? Can you achieve the higher ranks (say past 4th dan) without teaching and bringing other students to the rank of black belts themselves? Of course the chances of one making it that far are pretty slim without being drafted to teach a class here or there...

There doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rules in KKK about what it requires to rise from 4th to 5th and up. It always depends on the master, GM or the organization involved and how they interpret Kukkiwon regulations. I would think this is the case with ITF and other orgs that have many GMs and teachers.

The specific Kukkiwon rules require Dan tests to generally cover Practical testing: Poomsae, Kyorugi. Kyupka. So called special techniques and test of theoretical study are optional for 4th and 5th Dan. Test for 6th Dan and above must have practical and theoretical testing (a thesis can cover the theory part).

I've had masters and grandmasters who insist weapons and mastery of all Palgwe and Taeguk forms and Dan forms from Koryo to Jitae must be mastered for 4th Dan. KKW does not require weapons, Palgwe and the highest form one needs for 4th Dan is Taebaek.

I had another master who for 3rd Dan required one to learn two old Koryo forms and Bassai Tae -- in addition to the modern Koryo, Keumgang and Taebaek. That's in addition to some weapons.

I'm not complaining about those teachers though. What I learned as 3rd Dan is probably more than some 5th dans are being taught in Korea today.

 

[J Ellis]

Thanks for sharing those videos. I enjoyed watching them.

Out of curiosity, is it typical for TKD and/or ITF practitioners to bounce up and down in their horse stance when demonstrating front punches as seen early in the first clip?

Joel

 

[dbell]

I appreciate that, Kelly. I myself think the black belt rank should be separated from instructorship as the two can be different skill sets.

I'm going off the idea of a "master" however. I don't know if a 6th dan in the ITF would be considered a master or not, but it seems to me that attaining such a high rank should involve some type of give back to the art. Generally that means teaching to me.

I tend to disagree here. If we go back to the pre-belt days, you were either a student or an instructor. When the belts came into play, you were a "colored belt" or student, or black belt or instructor.

I do feel that a person can be given the full content of the art and not teach it, and that is OK. In my school that can be done at 1st Dan, but to go beyond that, they have to teach and be willing to pass the art on to others.

To achieve the title of "Master" (although I'm not found of it, even though I have used it, and use Grandmaster (in the form of Shihan)) one should be teaching it to others proficiently and be extremely strong in the art.

 

[Manny]

I really LIKED the vids, the BB's show a great grade of mastery, the vids simply rocks!! This is the TKD I like the most.

Manny

 

[rlobrecht]

The bouncing in a horse stance isn't bouncing so much as twisting, so that you use the power of your hips and legs in the punch, rather than just the power of your arms.

Yes, 6th dan is generally considered Master in ITF.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Sixth dan is at least master level in ITF right? I would have liked to have seen some teaching done by the candidates to show they can communicate their knowledge to others.

There are four people testing in those videos. Two of them are testing for 6th Dan, and each of them has a student also testing, one each for 3rd and 4th Dan. The two testing for 6th dan are both giving instructions at various times during the videos, and as each of them has trained at least one student to the yudansa they are clearly teachers.

 

[dancingalone]

Thanks for sharing those videos. I enjoyed watching them.

Out of curiosity, is it typical for TKD and/or ITF practitioners to bounce up and down in their horse stance when demonstrating front punches as seen early in the first clip?

Joel

I noticed the emphasis too and just chalked it up to ITF sine wave technique.

 

[dancingalone]

The two testing for 6th dan are both giving instructions at various times during the videos, and as each of them has trained at least one student to the yudansa they are clearly teachers.

Oh, I'm sure they are teachers. I just meant I would have liked to have seen a more clear exhibition of instruction.

 

[Kingtkd]

A good black belt test consists of me jumping over your whole studio.

 

[terryl965]

A good black belt test consists of me jumping over your whole studio.

I know you are not arrogant right?

 

[J Ellis]

The bouncing in a horse stance isn't bouncing so much as twisting, so that you use the power of your hips and legs in the punch, rather than just the power of your arms.

I understand the use of torque in punching applications, sir. But the height of their stances changed noticeably during the punching drill.

Please do not misunderstand. I am not trying to be critical, only to understand whether this aspect of their execution is typical of ITF TKD or whether it is simply the way these men were trained.

Respectfully,

Joel

 

[terryl965]

I understand the use of torque in punching applications, sir. But the height of their stances changed noticeably during the punching drill.

Please do not misunderstand. I am not trying to be critical, only to understand whether this aspect of their execution is typical of ITF TKD or whether it is simply the way these men were trained.

Respectfully,

Joel

Joel this is typical of alot of ITF folks.