global warming data...garbage in...

[pgsmith]

I know it's stupid, but I just can't help myself ... OK Bill, while you're ranting on about your usual topics, let me point out a couple of things here. First is the fact that the average global air and sea temperature is rising. This is undisputed, and every single climatologist agrees with this fact. Not theory, fact. Second is the fact that methane and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere traps heat, and increases the earth's average temperature. This is also undisputed fact that is agreed with by everyone involved in climatology. What is disputed among some climatologists is whether humanity is directly responsible for the rising temperatures or not. However, given these two facts, do you personally think it's a good idea to ignore how many millions of tons of carbon dioxide and methane gasses that our industries pump into the atmosphere every year? Does it really appear to you that ignoring any potential ill effects from our manufacturing processes is the best thing to do? Do you think that ignoring how many toxins are pumped into the ocean is a good idea also? In your opinion, should we release all pollution controls from our industries so they can maximize their profits, or do you think that limits on pollution are a necessary regulation?

I am truly interested in your answers to these questions.

 

[Tgace]

Preach that to China and India....

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[elder999]

I know it's stupid, but I just can't help myself ... OK Bill, while you're ranting on about your usual topics, let me point out a couple of things here. First is the fact that the average global air and sea temperature is rising. This is undisputed, and every single climatologist agrees with this fact. Not theory, fact. Second is the fact that methane and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere traps heat, and increases the earth's average temperature. This is also undisputed fact that is agreed with by everyone involved in climatology. What is disputed among some climatologists is whether humanity is directly responsible for the rising temperatures or not. However, given these two facts, do you personally think it's a good idea to ignore how many millions of tons of carbon dioxide and methane gasses that our industries pump into the atmosphere every year? Does it really appear to you that ignoring any potential ill effects from our manufacturing processes is the best thing to do? Do you think that ignoring how many toxins are pumped into the ocean is a good idea also? In your opinion, should we release all pollution controls from our industries so they can maximize their profits, or do you think that limits on pollution are a necessary regulation?

I am truly interested in your answers to these questions.

Facts?

You really think you can argue with facts? You don't have any propaganda websites to support your position, no endless screeds on the oppression of the right, no drooling polemics on the vast right wing conspiracy to heat the planet for our off-world reptilian overlords?
:lfao:

Oh, wait!

Facts??? They're like inert gases to some people, man: as long as they get enough oxygen, they can breathe in those facts and it's like they're not even there!

"Facts"....:lfao:

Preach that to China and India....

Sent from my ROIDX using Tapatalk

And this was, of course, the chief flaw of the Kyoto protocols-that they placed too much of a burden on the U.S., and not enough on places like China, where a new coal burning power plant goes on line every week, and without any of the controls that would be mandated here in the U.S.

 

[granfire]

Preach that to China and India....

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Sorry, but the west took the leading role...

Those have just not learned the lessons from or past...

 

[Tez3]

Preach that to China and India....

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

We do.

 

[ballen0351]

Sorry, but the west took the leading role...

Those have just not learned the lessons from or past...QUOTE]
The last list I saw of "offender" countries was 1 china 2 India 3 USA 4 Canada 5 Germany 6 Japan. But chinas output was higher then 3,4, and 5 combined

 

[granfire]

Sorry, but the west took the leading role...

Those have just not learned the lessons from or past...QUOTE]
The last list I saw of "offender" countries was 1 china 2 India 3 USA 4 Canada 5 Germany 6 Japan. But chinas output was higher then 3,4, and 5 combined

Now they are the leaders.
The development is hardly new though, and somehow Chine missed the green part from all they stole from the western technology sector.
Chlorofluorocarbons were a start, known very well in the 80s as to the damage they were doing, acid rain, same their...CO2 emissions regulations are also a really old hat, back when China was still the manufacturer's dream land and vastly undeveloped.

The damages strip mining has done...blahblah
All the data is at least 20 years old. yes, those countries are producing more NOW, but for 100 years we were the leaders.
It sucks that they missed the bad part about the industrial revolution...and are bound to repeat the mistakes the west made.

 

[geezer]

Facts??? They're like inert gases to some people, man: as long as they get enough oxygen, they can breathe in those facts and it's like they're not even there!

Inert gases? Like helium? They breathe it in and don't even know it's there? But when they talk, boy do they sound funny!

 

[ballen0351]

Now they are the leaders.
The development is hardly new though, and somehow Chine missed the green part from all they stole from the western technology sector.
Chlorofluorocarbons were a start, known very well in the 80s as to the damage they were doing, acid rain, same their...CO2 emissions regulations are also a really old hat, back when China was still the manufacturer's dream land and vastly undeveloped.

The damages strip mining has done...blahblah
All the data is at least 20 years old. yes, those countries are producing more NOW, but for 100 years we were the leaders.
It sucks that they missed the bad part about the industrial revolution...and are bound to repeat the mistakes the west made.

Oh I forgot about acid rain I'm.still waiting for that to kill me too. That was the big crisis 20 years ago now its global warming unless its a colder year then its climate change until we have a few days in a row over 100 then its see global warming then winter comes are we get record cold then its back to climate change. Its hard to keep track of all the stuff that is supposed to kill us. Let's just turn off all power and live like Amish.

 

[elder999]

Oh I forgot about acid rain I'm.still waiting for that to kill me too. That was the big crisis 20 years ago now its global warming unless its a colder year then its climate change until we have a few days in a row over 100 then its see global warming then winter comes are we get record cold then its back to climate change. Its hard to keep track of all the stuff that is supposed to kill us. Let's just turn off all power and live like Amish.

The primary causes of acid rain from coal combustion are nitric and sulfuric acids formed from the conjoining of sulfates and nitrates with water. Low NOX burners and combustion management, and various forms of SO2 removal, have reduced these emissions to such a level (it's not uncommon for an equipped coal plant to remove more than 92% of the SO2 from its emissions) that acid rain is no longer as big an issue.

So, we didn't have to turn off the power and live like the Amish, we had to impose regulations on the industry, so that they were forced to come up with solutions-the regulation created a need that there was a market for, and the market filled the need-it's a free market solution. It worked with SO2 and NOX, it's worked with particulate for more than 50 years, and it will work for CO2.

 

[ballen0351]

The primary causes of acid rain from coal combustion are nitric and sulfuric acids formed from the conjoining of sulfates and nitrates with water. Low NOX burners and combustion management, and various forms of SO2 removal, have reduced these emissions to such a level (it's not uncommon for an equipped coal plant to remove more than 92% of the SO2 from its emissions) that acid rain is no longer as big an issue.

So, we didn't have to turn off the power and live like the Amish, we had to impose regulations on the industry, so that they were forced to come up with solutions-the regulation created a need that there was a market for, and the market filled the need-it's a free market solution. It worked with SO2 and NOX, it's worked with particulate for more than 50 years, and it will work for CO2.

Wait so now Acid rains not going to kill us all? What about that hole in the Ozone thats supposed to burn us all alive? Is that still a crisis?

 

[Empty Hands]

Wait so now Acid rains not going to kill us all? What about that hole in the Ozone thats supposed to burn us all alive? Is that still a crisis?

How can you possibly think this is a good argument? Those things are no longer big problems because we did something about them. Cap and trade for acid rain, and banning CFCs for the ozone layer. Bringing these things up suggests that we should do the same for CO2 emissions!

 

[Sukerkin]

I think your quote went a little wonky, EH . Those are Ballens words rather than Elders.

 

[ballen0351]

How can you possibly think this is a good argument? Those things are no longer big problems because we did something about them. Cap and trade for acid rain, and banning CFCs for the ozone layer. Bringing these things up suggests that we should do the same for CO2 emissions!

Its not an argument its just awful funny every 10 to 20 years the next earth ending crisis shows up and were all going to die. We need to change our way of life or else we will all die, buy a hybrid for 8 to 10 grand more then a normal car or else, walk to work or else, get rid of regular light bulbs or else, shut down coal plants or else, pay more for our power or else, pay more for or Gas or else. But we dont need the other "less civilized" countries to follow because its just not fair to punish them they cant afford it.

 

[Sukerkin]

I disagree, Ballen. That is an argument and one that is not easily put aside.

We all ride on the surface of the world inside a very thin shell of an atmosphere and we should all be concerned about what we do to make that existence more precarious.

The consumer society, tho', is the biggest problem when it comes to adding disadvantageous compounds to the atmosphere.

Economics and sustainability are intimately inter-related.

 

[ballen0351]

I disagree, Ballen. That is an argument and one that is not easily put aside.

We all ride on the surface of the world inside a very thin shell of an atmosphere and we should all be concerned about what we do to make that existence more precarious.

The consumer society, tho', is the biggest problem when it comes to adding disadvantageous compounds to the atmosphere.

Economics and sustainability are intimately inter-related.

Its not an argument because I dont doubt the world is getting warmer. I just dont agree we are causing it. Its a warming cycle it happens everytime we come out of an iceage. At some point it will cool again back into an IceAge.
I also agree we need to clean up the earth and preserve nature and forests, but not because of climate change, or acid rain, or Ozone holes, or whatever else comes up next, once this climate change thing is "solved," but because its the right thing to do. Not that it will cause a crisis and kill us all but because I want my kids and grand kids to be able to go fishing in a mountain stream, go diving on a coral reef, and go hunting in a forest. I think there are more important things we should be cleaning up first then a natural gas we breath out.

 

[granfire]

Oh I forgot about acid rain I'm.still waiting for that to kill me too. That was the big crisis 20 years ago now its global warming unless its a colder year then its climate change until we have a few days in a row over 100 then its see global warming then winter comes are we get record cold then its back to climate change. Its hard to keep track of all the stuff that is supposed to kill us. Let's just turn off all power and live like Amish.

you are talking like a city slicker who has never set foot in a wooden patch.

Now try that same approach as a land owner who has 80 years or more invested in a crop to see it wither and die...that is nearly 3 life times.

yes, we have managed to turn the tide - some. After many acres of forest had died.

Oh...you know, those big green things... taking CO2 out of the atmosphere....THOSE things.

And the Ozone...well, true I grant you that. It won't affect you much in New England...however folks near the Polar circles have felt the impact. And that is one problem that won't be corrected soon...

And maybe we need to live more like the Amish...some of them are behind their plain facade pretty darn rich!

 

[WC_lun]

Something to keep in mind, we acted upon the causes of those threats in the past. Now we are so busy argueing we cannot come up with any helpful regulations. Anything that infringes upon the profit of a company, even with a foundation of loads of scientific proof is shouted down by deniers. If that had happened when acid rain was a thread, it would still be a threat.

 

[granfire]

Something to keep in mind, we acted upon the causes of those threats in the past. Now we are so busy argueing we cannot come up with any helpful regulations. Anything that infringes upon the profit of a company, even with a foundation of loads of scientific proof is shouted down by deniers. If that had happened when acid rain was a thread, it would still be a threat.

Well, we have always allowed for heaps of denial: I mean, why allow companies to 'buy' greener companies achievements in terms of pollution.

but you are right.

Oh....going green has it's own reward in business: it's a growing business, there is money to be made...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well, we have always allowed for heaps of denial: I mean, why allow companies to 'buy' greener companies achievements in terms of pollution.

but you are right.

Oh....going green has it's own reward in business: it's a growing business, there is money to be made...