From brown belt to red....

[Oldbear343]

When did red belt replace brown belt, and why? Just curious ☺

 

[Dirty Dog]

Never. The red belt was the original choice for the highest geup rank.

 

[Oldbear343]

Never. The red belt was the original choice for the highest geup rank.

Thank you. Once again you have exposed my incomplete knowledge ☺

 

[marques]

It can also be between Blue and Brown (now at my ex-association). Everything is possible... But the 'standard' is the Judo Rank System.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It can also be between Blue and Brown (now at my ex-association). Everything is possible... But the 'standard' is the Judo Rank System.

Sure. There's one system that uses a camo belt.
But the original system is white - yellow - green - blue - red - black.
People can and do make all sorts of changes to that.

 

[Oldbear343]

It can also be between Blue and Brown (now at my ex-association). Everything is possible... But the 'standard' is the Judo Rank System.

Thanks for that ☺

 

[Oldbear343]

Sure. There's one system that uses a camo belt.
But the original system is white - yellow - green - blue - red - black.
People can and do make all sorts of changes to that.

Thanks ☺

 

[IcemanSK]

I've often wondered why brown belt was used in TKD schools (sometimes at the exclusion of red belt) going back to the 60's & 70's in the U.S. Perhaps (and I'm guessing here) it's because there were more Karate & Judo schools than TKD schools then; so the demand was brown belts, not red used in a (then) lesser practiced Art.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I've often wondered why brown belt was used in TKD schools (sometimes at the exclusion of red belt) going back to the 60's & 70's in the U.S. Perhaps (and I'm guessing here) it's because there were more Karate & Judo schools than TKD schools then; so the demand was brown belts, not red used in a (then) lesser practiced Art.

Most likely this is correct. There were (and still are, for that matter) a lot of TKD schools with "Korean Karate" signs in the window. And Karate (at least the flavors with which I am at least a little familiar) uses the brown belt.

 

[Oldbear343]

I've often wondered why brown belt was used in TKD schools (sometimes at the exclusion of red belt) going back to the 60's & 70's in the U.S. Perhaps (and I'm guessing here) it's because there were more Karate & Judo schools than TKD schools then; so the demand was brown belts, not red used in a (then) lesser practiced Art.

Yes, brown was in use when I began tkd in 77/78, so I thought that was the norm. Both my informal Instructor Sharkey Cooksey and my first formal Instructor Yoo Tai Song (at that time 5th degree tkd, 4th dan Judo, plus kendo, and a former member of the Korean team) recognised brown belt within their systems....

 

[Oldbear343]

Most likely this is correct. There were (and still are, for that matter) a lot of TKD schools with "Korean Karate" signs in the window. And Karate (at least the flavors with which I am at least a little familiar) uses the brown belt.

You are quite right about brown belt being standard across most of the more traditional karate Ryu's. Many are slightly distrustful of the modern trend towards rainbow belt systems!

Regarding the original question, brown belt was accepted by my early tkd instructors, one of whom had fought in the Korean national team, so I assumed it was the norm. However, you started tkd some 10 years before me...

Thanks for all your insights ☺

 

[marques]

But the original system is white - yellow - green - blue - red - black.

Curious. I see more often White, Yellow, Orange, Green, Blue, Brown, Black (and red, red/white...). That is the Judo rank in West and Oceania.
And wiki says that Kanō's original kyū-dan grading system was only Light Blue (!?), White, Brown and Black (and reds after 6Dan...).
Everything is possible. Last colour in Capoeira can be White or Black!

But who cares? What is the meaning of colours, outside the school / academy / association?
Once (2 months), I was 'White' and even the Brown and Black were as boring as Yellow or Orange. There is no skill standard...

 

[Earl Weiss]

Sure. There's one system that uses a camo belt.
But the original system is white - yellow - green - blue - red - black.
People can and do make all sorts of changes to that.

Well, not really. First we would have to agree on what is "Original" and then on what is "TKD"

Per General Choi's 1965 Book. The lowest grade rank - White Belt was 8th -7th, Then Blue 6-5, Then Brown, 4-1st, Followed by Black (Degrees). (Also explains early use fo the Brown Belt) In the 1972 Book it was 10 Grades / Gups WYGBR. Likely the original system copied that of the early Kwans Which copied earlier Ryus, and the change along with the meaning for the colors was part of giving TKD a unique identity.

 

[andyjeffries]

The colours of the belts (white, yellow, green, blue, red, black) also match the colours used in the Olympic rings when shown on a flag (and the white background of the flag).

 

[Gnarlie]

see 4:45.

 

[Oldbear343]

Well, not really. First we would have to agree on what is "Original" and then on what is "TKD"

Per General Choi's 1965 Book. The lowest grade rank - White Belt was 8th -7th, Then Blue 6-5, Then Brown, 4-1st, Followed by Black (Degrees). (Also explains early use fo the Brown Belt) In the 1972 Book it was 10 Grades / Gups WYGBR. Likely the original system copied that of the early Kwans Which copied earlier Ryus, and the change along with the meaning for the colors was part of giving TKD a unique identity.

Thank you - that makes sense to me ☺

 

[Oldbear343]

see 4:45.

Thanks Gnarlie - however, Earl Weiss points out above that brown was an original belt colour in Gerald Choi's Book in 1965. It seems possible to me that pressure to have differentiation in identity may have been applied, thus leading to red replacing brown?

 

[Oldbear343]

The colours of the belts (white, yellow, green, blue, red, black) also match the colours used in the Olympic rings when shown on a flag (and the white background of the flag).

Thanks Andy ☺

 

[Gnarlie]

Thanks Gnarlie - however, Earl Weiss points out above that brown was an original belt colour in Gerald Choi's Book in 1965. It seems possible to me that pressure to have differentiation in identity may have been applied, thus leading to red replacing brown?

Maybe, I don't know what came first, I wasn't there. If brown was first, strong nationalistic sentiment post occupation may have led to a desire to make Taekwondo look and feel more Korean. The primary colours red, yellow, and blue feature heavily in Korean tradition (particularly the Sam Seug-ui Taegeuk), so red would be the natural choice, with green perhaps coming as a later addition.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Sam_Taegeuk_(LynneCmix).png

 

[Oldbear343]

Maybe, I don't know what came first, I wasn't there. If brown was first, strong nationalistic sentiment post occupation may have led to a desire to make Taekwondo look and feel more Korean. The primary colours red, yellow, and blue feature heavily in Korean tradition (particularly the Sam Seug-ui Taegeuk), so red would be the natural choice, with green perhaps coming as a later addition.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Sam_Taegeuk_(LynneCmix).png

Thanks ☺