Forms looking for ideas for a different way of doing traditional poomse

[dcsma]

Not to say that I don't like doing the basics and all the other forms traditionally but looking for ideas how to make the poomse's more enjoyable to everyone. Sometimes I do it by the count with my students, then I also from Chum bi have my students face the je ja doing the form and with each student attacks at count and the je ja will perform the move associated with the form. Also I have the student close there eyes and have them do the form and looking how well they can start and stop at the same spot with minus one sense.

So how do you spice things up with tradition with doing poomse and still get the point across of teaching the form??

 

[Kinghercules]

Not to say that I don't like doing the basics and all the other forms traditionally but looking for ideas how to make the poomse's more enjoyable to everyone. Sometimes I do it by the count with my students, then I also from Chum bi have my students face the je ja doing the form and with each student attacks at count and the je ja will perform the move associated with the form. Also I have the student close there eyes and have them do the form and looking how well they can start and stop at the same spot with minus one sense.

So how do you spice things up with tradition with doing poomse and still get the point across of teaching the form??

I dont see whats wrong with what you are doin.
People aways wanna get all fancy with the MA. I say stick to the old school.

 

[TKDinAK]

Not to say that I don't like doing the basics and all the other forms traditionally but looking for ideas how to make the poomse's more enjoyable to everyone. Sometimes I do it by the count with my students, then I also from Chum bi have my students face the je ja doing the form and with each student attacks at count and the je ja will perform the move associated with the form. Also I have the student close there eyes and have them do the form and looking how well they can start and stop at the same spot with minus one sense.

So how do you spice things up with tradition with doing poomse and still get the point across of teaching the form??

I have an instructor who will have each one of us turn in a different direction than what we are used to. Some backwards, some at opposing 45 degree angles... and also close our eyes. We have also done our patterns moving in the opposite direction.

 

[Gnarlie]

Hey dcsma

Here's some ideas I've used:

Have them 'unzip' the form - do all of the movements on a straight line moving forward, with no 90 degree turns. Very challenging.

Have them do the moves in reverse order.

Have them do all the movements in sets of 3 to the count.

Have them do the whole pattern but replace any low block technique with something else more physical, e.g. 1 push up. Makes people think about the order of techniques, but stops them from going cold while doing so.

Have groups of 4 people start with their backs to each other to do the pattern in the shape of a cross. They should end in the same place, facing each other.

Have them perform the pattern to the count, but restart the pattern each time a new movement is reached i.e. 1, 12, 123, 1234, 12345, etc - physically demanding

Have them experiment with the speed of movements - foxtrot is one of my favourites for fun factor - slow, slow, quick quick slow

Have them balance a kidney pad on their head and then do the pattern without losing it.

Have them shout the korean names of each movement as they do the movement

Have them work out and show a self defence application for every movement in the pattern including ready stances

Have one person do the form while everybody else tries to distract them without touching them

Have them perform the whole form in slow motion, Tai Chi Style, concentrating on delivering power and last moment wrist twisting. Nip out for a bite, could take a while.

Have them sit in a side split, and perform every hand technique from every pattern that they know in order, naming them in Korean as they go. If they can't think of the next one, they repeat the last one until they remember it. 1 tech per second minimum.

Repeat the above in a low horse stance on the spot.

Repeat the above in a loose fighting stance, bouncing on the balls of the feet, techs and combinations in time with the bounce on the spot.

Have them work in teams of 4 to present a synchronised pattern display. Makes people think about timing.

Have them do the form replacing every front kick with a knee strike, every open hand technique with a closed hand technique and vice versa. Makes people think about what the techniques are rather than just going through the motions.

Have them line up at one end of the room. On command, 4 people run to the other end of the room, perform the pattern as fast as they can with no mistakes, then run back. Make it a relay. If anyone makes a mistake they run back to the start, and begin again. Good for ingraining the movements in the memory early on in the learning process, without worrying about perfection.

Have fun

Gnarlie

 

[Earl Weiss]

Combat Speed, Fast as they can.

Tiger variation - Front kick before each punch.

Dragon Variation - Jumping Back Kick before each punch

White Dragon Variatioon. - Back kiick before each punch (White Dragons can't jump)

In a box. All steps / turns replaced by jumping in place

 

[andyjeffries]

Have groups of 4 people start with their backs to each other to do the pattern in the shape of a cross. They should end in the same place, facing each other.

Do all Chang Hon/ITF forms finish facing backward then?

Taegeuk 6 doesn't (for example, there are others) in Kukki-Taekwondo.

I'm not trying to be nitpicky by the way, it's just that's something I didn't know (if it is the case that they all finish the same way in Taekwon-do)...

 

[chrispillertkd]

Do all Chang Hon/ITF forms finish facing backward then?

If "backwards" means facing the opposite direction from the way they started then no, none of them do. None of the tul end with the practitioner's back facing the way his chest faced at the start of the pattern.

Pax,

Chris

 

[chrispillertkd]

You could perform the patterns as "add-ons." For example, in Chon-Ji you'd start in ready position and then execute the first movement. Back to ready position and then movements one and two. Ready position and then movements one, two , and three. If you are performing with snap and power at all you'll be pretty tired after only one pattern.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Gnarlie]

I don't know about Ch'ang Hon, I use the Taegeuk Series - I know they don't all end up facing that way, but it was easier to express the point of the exercise that way

Works best with Chil Jang IMO

 

[andyjeffries]

If "backwards" means facing the opposite direction from the way they started then no, none of them do. None of the tul end with the practitioner's back facing the way his chest faced at the start of the pattern.

Either way then, that's interesting. Do they always finish facing the same direction as the start - or just never facing the opposite direction.

Some Kukki-Taekwondo poomsae face the same way as the start, some facing the opposite way from the start, some facing to the side.

 

[miguksaram]

First off...thanks to those who have posted so far. These are some great ideas. Just to add some other items:

- Do the pattern, but they have to do a different block or punch each time and not repeat a technique. If they are only 2nd or 3rd level the you can allow them one or two repeats.

- Do the form with their eyes shut.

- Do the form with their eyes shut AND facing a corner of the school.

 

[dancingalone]

Not to say that I don't like doing the basics and all the other forms traditionally but looking for ideas how to make the poomse's more enjoyable to everyone. S

I find that students enjoy learning and training forms more when they are made relevant to them. A lot of students particularly the younger set think forms are boring and pointless, and they can be I suppose if they are trained in isolation of everything else. Then they seem like busy work, like pointless homework.

It takes work, but consider integrating forms into the rest of the curriculum. Are your warmups connected for forms? Are your promise sets? Does your
self-defense use any of the ideas out of the poomsae? If not, this might be a big new frontier to explore.

 

[dcsma]

Hey dcsma

Here's some ideas I've used:

Have them 'unzip' the form - do all of the movements on a straight line moving forward, with no 90 degree turns. Very challenging.

Have them do the moves in reverse order.

Have them do all the movements in sets of 3 to the count.

Have them do the whole pattern but replace any low block technique with something else more physical, e.g. 1 push up. Makes people think about the order of techniques, but stops them from going cold while doing so.

Have groups of 4 people start with their backs to each other to do the pattern in the shape of a cross. They should end in the same place, facing each other.

Have them perform the pattern to the count, but restart the pattern each time a new movement is reached i.e. 1, 12, 123, 1234, 12345, etc - physically demanding

Have them experiment with the speed of movements - foxtrot is one of my favourites for fun factor - slow, slow, quick quick slow

Have them balance a kidney pad on their head and then do the pattern without losing it.

Have them shout the korean names of each movement as they do the movement

Have them work out and show a self defence application for every movement in the pattern including ready stances

Have one person do the form while everybody else tries to distract them without touching them

Have them perform the whole form in slow motion, Tai Chi Style, concentrating on delivering power and last moment wrist twisting. Nip out for a bite, could take a while.

Have them sit in a side split, and perform every hand technique from every pattern that they know in order, naming them in Korean as they go. If they can't think of the next one, they repeat the last one until they remember it. 1 tech per second minimum.

Repeat the above in a low horse stance on the spot.

Repeat the above in a loose fighting stance, bouncing on the balls of the feet, techs and combinations in time with the bounce on the spot.

Have them work in teams of 4 to present a synchronised pattern display. Makes people think about timing.

Have them do the form replacing every front kick with a knee strike, every open hand technique with a closed hand technique and vice versa. Makes people think about what the techniques are rather than just going through the motions.

Have them line up at one end of the room. On command, 4 people run to the other end of the room, perform the pattern as fast as they can with no mistakes, then run back. Make it a relay. If anyone makes a mistake they run back to the start, and begin again. Good for ingraining the movements in the memory early on in the learning process, without worrying about perfection.

Have fun

Gnarlie

Gnarlie great ideas. Just trying new ideas on my white belts who only know one form but still keep it interesting for them and for the rest of the group. Thanks everyone to have posted and all great ideas.

 

[Jason Striker II]

Two brief Ideas:

1) the forms can be done with dynamic-tension breathing (Sanchin-style), in order to build power

2) the techniques of the form can be totally reorganized and added to by the students to either a) make new "sets" of combinations, or b) worked into a series of self-defense one-step combinations

 

[chrispillertkd]

Either way then, that's interesting. Do they always finish facing the same direction as the start - or just never facing the opposite direction.

Some Kukki-Taekwondo poomsae face the same way as the start, some facing the opposite way from the start, some facing to the side.

Tuls always end facing to one of the sides or to the front. None end up facing away from the front. I remember that when I learned the Taeguks and Koryo this difference was something that really struck me.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Earl Weiss]

Tuls always end facing to one of the sides or to the front. None end up facing away from the front. I remember that when I learned the Taeguks and Koryo this difference was something that really struck me.

Pax,

Chris

Although empirically not 100% perfect, one of the hallmarks for determining accurate performance of the Chang Hon patterns is that the ending return to the ready positon for that pattern should place you in exactly the same spot on the floor asthe beginning ready position.

 

[puunui]

Although empirically not 100% perfect, one of the hallmarks for determining accurate performance of the Chang Hon patterns is that the ending return to the ready positon for that pattern should place you in exactly the same spot on the floor asthe beginning ready position.

Same thing with the Kukkiwon poomsae.

 

[andyjeffries]

Same thing with the Kukkiwon poomsae.

The two I have an issue with are Taegeuk 1 and Sipjin. Taegeuk 1 was always quoted to me by other instructors that it finishes one long stance behind the starting position. Since then I've managed to get it to finish on the same spot if I'm amazingly careful with my stances and turns, but it takes full concentration on that. I'm sure this is just a time thing and I'll get there and it will be natural (hey, it gives me something to work on to improve so that's all good in my book)

Sipjin, unless I jump forward on the reinforced backfist, I can't make the same spot. GM KANG Ik-Pil's book says to jump rather than just stamp is a deduction, so I'm trying not to do that. Haven't figured a solution for this one (even if I take it slow/careful/concentrating).

 

[puunui]

The two I have an issue with are Taegeuk 1 and Sipjin. Taegeuk 1 was always quoted to me by other instructors that it finishes one long stance behind the starting position. Since then I've managed to get it to finish on the same spot if I'm amazingly careful with my stances and turns, but it takes full concentration on that. I'm sure this is just a time thing and I'll get there and it will be natural (hey, it gives me something to work on to improve so that's all good in my book)

Sipjin, unless I jump forward on the reinforced backfist, I can't make the same spot. GM KANG Ik-Pil's book says to jump rather than just stamp is a deduction, so I'm trying not to do that. Haven't figured a solution for this one (even if I take it slow/careful/concentrating).

Keep working on it. Or attend a Kukkiwon Instructor Course and ask the course instructors. You should be able to land on your starting spot, or at least very close to your starting spot, without having to think about it. The one I have trouble with is taeguek 6 jang, because I'm moving backwards and can't see where I am going. I may miss my mark on the first rep, but after that I am ok. And yes, no jumping on the back fist in sipjin or taeguek 5 jang. I don't know why so many people want to jump on that move.

 

[MSUTKD]

Keumgang and Jitae are the only two forms that you do not have to land on the same spot, that is from the Kukkiwon.