Fight how we train?

[Steve]

I read a number of blogs regularly. One is a great blog by a guy named John Will who has been involved in martial arts for a loooong time. He always provides interesting insight and isn't afraid to buck conventional wisdom when he has an observation to make.

So, in today's post, his topic has to do with the Cuban who kicked the ref.

His first observation is already the subject of a thread and has to do with the unsportsmanlike conduct of the athlete.

His second observation is that this kick to the head of a completely unsuspecting person who was in no way prepared to dodge barely even phased him. John Will says, "We are all products of our training. if we pull the kicks in training, then we will pull them when we are put to the test in moments of pressure."

 

[JWLuiza]

It could also be that he pulled it halfway realizing how much of an *** he was being...

I'm torn. I do point fighting and was always taught if I could control my techs now, I'll be able to hit when needed. But I know point fighting definitely gives bad habits. I think just stepping out of your comfort zone and upping contact is a good way to gauge your ability to alter the level of control.

Yeah, he should've been able to knock that guy cold on the floor.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I read a number of blogs regularly. One is a great blog by a guy named John Will who has been involved in martial arts for a loooong time. He always provides interesting insight and isn't afraid to buck conventional wisdom when he has an observation to make.

So, in today's post, his topic has to do with the Cuban who kicked the ref.

His first observation is already the subject of a thread and has to do with the unsportsmanlike conduct of the athlete.

His second observation is that this kick to the head of a completely unsuspecting person who was in no way prepared to dodge barely even phased him. John Will says, "We are all products of our training. if we pull the kicks in training, then we will pull them when we are put to the test in moments of pressure."

There is some truth to the second observation. I saw one guy get lippy in a bar and then step back and then he threw three kicks to the head. Not one landed but all were beautifully close. He had good control. But the other guy just punched him in the face when he set his foot down. Fight was over.

 

[jarrod]

if you spar as if you are in a fight, you are going to have a LOT of injuries. their has to be a middle ground. point fighting is good for learning to get the first strike, but it's a mistake to think that every flicking backfist will lay out your opponent if you "did it for real".

sparring should be done light-to-medium contact for safety. i think follow through is more important than power sparring. your first strike being light is fine if it sets up more powerful shots. tagging someone every so often isn't going to end a fight, but accurate combinations will.

jf

 

[Deaf Smith]

Yes we fight like we train. But we can train well and still not kill each other.

One of the reasons for the punching bag is to get power in one's technique. I tell others the punching bag is your friend. Your friend can help you in many ways. Range, timing, power, accuracy... all can be learned with the bag.

I also tell them people are not punching bags. True you need some contact when sparring, but since sparring is not a fight, never was a fight, and will never be a true fight as no matter what dojo or ring you are in, there are rules. If it was not that way there would be an awful lot of crippled and dead people and except for a few gifted few, most would leave the arts and ring.

The trick, just like shooting competition, is to keep your training relavant. Keep your techniques that are effective and try to shun pure game techniques that you know would fail on the street.

I find Olympic TKD is a pure game, just as IPSC (International Practical Shooting Confederation) is a pure game with no pretense of being a combat sport. Some of their are worth exploring for use on the street, but on the whole, they are games (fun games, but games.)

Most dojos, and IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) are half way between games and the street. Most of what is taught can be adapted to the street, but since neither like having maimed or dead students, neither can actually replicate what happens on the street (and I can live with that.)

I sometimes play games like IPSC, and I'd actually like to learn how to effect the kicks like they do in Olympic TKD. But only to adapt what I find will be effective on the street.

Deaf

 

[chinto]

i think that yes to a point we fight like we train, but I do not buy that you have to go out and nail people like you would in a fight to train. just do not buy it at all.

that said I also wonder if that man realized he was being an ******* and well pulled the kick... I agree with the post that a heavy bag or a makawara can teach you to hit hard and foucussed punches and kicks... and lets face it people, if you fought in a sparring match full contact with the same techniques you would use in the street when attacked, well some one is going to the hospital.. or possibly worse.

its not nice to hurt let alone brake or do other bad things to your training partners! :whip:

:jediduel:

 

[bowser666]

Point sparring will teach poor fighting skills. Continual flow point sparring where fight continues and points are tallied is a much better way to go.

Not to mention TKD point sparring teaches PUNCHES DONT MATTER. Great way to get your butt kicked. Oh yeah and not even bothering with a guard is pathetic as well. Once a person gets close range you are done if you fight that way.

 

[still learning]

Hello, If you spar alot or do point sparring or any martial art tournaments seriously? ....you can form bad habits.

Rules and time outs, and the way you fight in the rings? ....may get you confuse when fighting in the streets of : NO RULES...anything goes!

You will hear stories how a karate kid kick an attacker....drop him...thinking it was over...only to get beating up by the attacter....a Jujistu MMA expert attack by two men in a parking lots....arm lock knife holder...who tap out....Jujistu guy let go and got stab a couple of times..live to tell the story and NO longer able to fight in MMA fights today because of the injuries received.

Street fighting is NO way like fights in a classroom settings and rules.

THE REASON WHY YOU HEAR? ...you will fight like you train! ...come from those who being there! (lots of them too)

I know guys who will keep hitting you till you cannot move! ...why because if you can get back up? .....you will fight back and maybe even win or beat you up badly....this comes from fighting in the bad streets of Honolulu against other gangs. NOT me? ..but from there experience.

Not many train is dark alleys or dangerous parks for the FEAR/ADRENLINE FACTORS .....this will cause you to react different from classrooms.

All alone against someone who suprise you by you car...or on the street by yourself? ......you will know the truth about your training!

Only you can experience? ....fight like you train! ...Hope your training prepares you for the streets fights and anything goes...with NO rules or breaks!

Aloha , Learning to run faster....is always good to run like training!

 

[Cirdan]

Yep; I`ve been thinking the same thing. Not only did he show the world his complete lack of sportmanship, he demonstrated that a gold medalist in this sport is unable to cause damage even against an unsuspecting target. If the wanted to pull the kick he would have stopped before impacting, you don`t have to be world class to do that trick.

 

[Drag'n]

That incident reminded me of a similar experience I had as a youngster.
I trained in TKD throughout High school.
One day got into a fight with a tall kid at school.
I kicked him with my best round kick, a tech I had practised over and over for years,
mainly in non contact sparring and against hand held focus pads.
My body did exactly what I had trained it to do. I snapped it against his face with no follow through.
So what happened?
He laughed, punched me in the face and flung me round like a rag doll to the ground.....
I learned a very important lesson from that experience.
After that I started practising more power kicking on the heavy bag and eventually got into a Muay Thai school where I could experience more contact sparring.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

We do indeed fight how we train. This doesn't mean every sparring session should be an all-out brawl though. For the most part it should be light-medium contact, slowly raised to full in order to pressure test, and then lowered back down to work out kinks in technique. Up and down, smoothing out our abilities till we have proper technique under heavy pressure.