Fear

[Tony]

Although I have been studying Kung fu for over 5 years, whenever I'm out I seem to have an irrational fear of being in crowded places and I try to avoid well known trouble hotspots! Last night my female friends took me to such a place last night, and although it wasn't nearly as busy as it is on a Saturday night, I did feel very uncomfortable! I was using my periphial vision to be aware of where people were coming and what they were doing! We were sat in a corner and after a while a middle ages couple sat on the table next opposite us which was quite close! I guess they thought they would find somewhere to have an argument! I was trying not to look at them, so as to not aggrivate what might be a bad situation! There were also some louts in there acting a bit too loud for my taste!
I know there was a post on Rage but I was wondering if fear has helped you at any point?

 

[Kris]

Although I have been studying Kung fu for over 5 years, whenever I'm out I seem to have an irrational fear of being in crowded places and I try to avoid well known trouble hotspots! Last night my female friends took me to such a place last night, and although it wasn't nearly as busy as it is on a Saturday night, I did feel very uncomfortable! I was using my periphial vision to be aware of where people were coming and what they were doing! We were sat in a corner and after a while a middle ages couple sat on the table next opposite us which was quite close! I guess they thought they would find somewhere to have an argument! I was trying not to look at them, so as to not aggrivate what might be a bad situation! There were also some louts in there acting a bit too loud for my taste!
I know there was a post on Rage but I was wondering if fear has helped you at any point?

Fear keeps you alive to a certain point, it stops you doing stupid stuff and lets you know when things are getting to much, the problem arises when that to much can't be stopped and you just have to go for it, thats when fear becomes a problem not a benefit.......

 

[Tony]

Well I also have a fear of aggressive people! Even if they are much weaker than me I will cower because they know how to use the aggression against me! For instance a certain friend of mine has made me feel scared even though it would be so easy to harm him! he has had numerous operations on his kidney stones and so has bad sides! I'm not really an assertive person even though I practice Martial Arts so I still seem to be a doormat for those people who are overly aggressive!
I remember an incident while standing in front of some chairs in a nightclub, this guy rudely gestured me to move. He did say "excuse me" but with a look he merely got me to move! had it been someone else, who was a big muscle bound person he probably would have thought twice but I guess because I don't carry myself with confidence he could see that and took advantage, like so many other people do! On the other hand if I had asserted myself and said "I will only move if you say excuse me please" I don't think he would have cared very much, in turn becoming more confrontational which is not necessary! I mean what is so hard about saying excuse me! I always say excuse me when I have to get past people oin pubs or clubs, and there are those idiots who choose not to hear me! I will not fight unless I have to but I certainly don't want to be a doormat!
I read a post that mentioned a scene in Rising sun with Sean Connery!
He is approaching this house to interview a suspect who happens to be having a party. On the door are 2 bouncers, and as Sean Connery is trying to get inside one of the bouncers says, "I must warn you me and Greg are both blackbelts" This guy puts his hands on Sean and he strikes him in the throat and collapses to the ground holding his throat! Then he says to the tother bouncer "Theres an old Oriental saying that says if you have to resort to Violence you have already lost, don't agree Greg?" and with that the guy using what braincells he had didn't persist any further!
I like that quote!

 

[7starmantis]

I think a healthy fear is good to a point. Its a good thing to use your peripheral visoin to keep "tabs" on others, but not to the point where it interferes with your conversation with your friends, especially a lady friend, that tend to pick up on that quickly! It is good to sort of "blue print" the entire place when you walk in, know where the exists are, see where the big muscle builder is sitting and such, but it can't take over. Fear stops you from doing things bad, and drives you to do the right thing sometimes, but it has to be a good level. To much fear paralyzes. Its hard to explain the right amount of fear, I guess its a personal thing you have to find the balance.

7sm

 

[Cryozombie]

I agree... Fear can work both ways.

One of the things we train in in our Dojo is "emotional control" not only how to stay calm and control your emotional state, but how to manipulate your opponents as well...

I think that helps in certain situations...

 

[moving target]

I think to some extent SD training if not MA training increases your awareness and lets you realise dangers to a greater extent than you normaly would.

 

[8253]

Although I have been studying Kung fu for over 5 years, whenever I'm out I seem to have an irrational fear of being in crowded places and I try to avoid well known trouble hotspots! Last night my female friends took me to such a place last night, and although it wasn't nearly as busy as it is on a Saturday night, I did feel very uncomfortable! I was using my periphial vision to be aware of where people were coming and what they were doing! We were sat in a corner and after a while a middle ages couple sat on the table next opposite us which was quite close! I guess they thought they would find somewhere to have an argument! I was trying not to look at them, so as to not aggrivate what might be a bad situation! There were also some louts in there acting a bit too loud for my taste!
I know there was a post on Rage but I was wondering if fear has helped you at any point?

Fear or not one should always be aware of what surrounds themselves. :sniper:

so as not to be caught off guard.

 

[Zoran]

Although I have been studying Kung fu for over 5 years, whenever I'm out I seem to have an irrational fear of being in crowded places and I try to avoid well known trouble hotspots! Last night my female friends took me to such a place last night, and although it wasn't nearly as busy as it is on a Saturday night, I did feel very uncomfortable! I was using my periphial vision to be aware of where people were coming and what they were doing! We were sat in a corner and after a while a middle ages couple sat on the table next opposite us which was quite close! I guess they thought they would find somewhere to have an argument! I was trying not to look at them, so as to not aggrivate what might be a bad situation! There were also some louts in there acting a bit too loud for my taste!
I know there was a post on Rage but I was wondering if fear has helped you at any point?

Fear is fine, as others have pointed out. However, you should not take it to the extent that you can't enjoy yourself or that it dictates the quality of your life. If it does, then it may be time to do something about it.

 

[Bod]

I used to be a bit of a doormat, and afraid of crowds until I started practising judo. I'd done kung fu for a while, and some taijutsu but it hadn't affected me as deeply as judo has.

I think the reason for this is that wrestling prepares you for close contact, and being 'smothered' by an attack is a legitimate and deeply ingrained fear. If you feel apologetic about being in someone else's space the close contact of judo, especially wrestling on the floor between someone's legs can be difficult, but when you get over it, which you do, it is very liberating.

It is very difficult in a crowded situation to anticipate a threat until it is too late - you are grabbed. This is when wrestling skill takes the fear of being overwhelmed away, as you begin to feel comfortable even with an opponent's arm around you. As your body stops feeling threatened it will begin to show, without any need for bravado. Your kung-fu will get better, as you stop attempting to stay outside, when kung-fu works so well from the inside.

Learning to handle aggresive talk is good too. When aggresive questions start getting fired in your direction, don't answer them. Just say (or convey), "I don't understand why you are asking me that." It's no aggresive, and it's not submissive. Don't say "Why are you asking me that?" because it is playing the game.

Finally crowded, noisy bars are horrid. Some people feel it less (otherwise they wouldn't be crowded in the first place ), but if you don't like them say so. If it is a group night out stay a short while and then leave. This makes you "elusive", so people will seek you out socially more than ever before (in theory anyway).

 

[LadyDragon]

For some people fear really comes down to psychology. In other words fight or flight. Your body usually tells you how to react. If your feet stick to the ground and your not going any where, get ready for a fight, but if you start running and you don't even know why chances are your instincts completely took over and your running away was the right thing to do.

Everyone reacts different in these situations, and you really don't know what you're reaction is going to be until that moment comes around. The only true thing to do, is be cautious and aware of your surroundings, which you're already doing. Just don't make it so that where ever you go you're uncomfortable and constantly look paranoid.

 

[Tony]

I used to be a bit of a doormat, and afraid of crowds until I started practising judo. I'd done kung fu for a while, and some taijutsu but it hadn't affected me as deeply as judo has.

I think the reason for this is that wrestling prepares you for close contact, and being 'smothered' by an attack is a legitimate and deeply ingrained fear. If you feel apologetic about being in someone else's space the close contact of judo, especially wrestling on the floor between someone's legs can be difficult, but when you get over it, which you do, it is very liberating.

It is very difficult in a crowded situation to anticipate a threat until it is too late - you are grabbed. This is when wrestling skill takes the fear of being overwhelmed away, as you begin to feel comfortable even with an opponent's arm around you. As your body stops feeling threatened it will begin to show, without any need for bravado. Your kung-fu will get better, as you stop attempting to stay outside, when kung-fu works so well from the inside.

Learning to handle aggresive talk is good too. When aggresive questions start getting fired in your direction, don't answer them. Just say (or convey), "I don't understand why you are asking me that." It's no aggresive, and it's not submissive. Don't say "Why are you asking me that?" because it is playing the game.

Finally crowded, noisy bars are horrid. Some people feel it less (otherwise they wouldn't be crowded in the first place ), but if you don't like them say so. If it is a group night out stay a short while and then leave. This makes you "elusive", so people will seek you out socially more than ever before (in theory anyway).

Hi Bod

I actually used to do Judo when I was 10 but stopped when I went to secondary school! We were always told by our instructor never to use what we were learning off the mat and I think I took that literally because I never used it when I was being bullied! But also I found that because it was such a large class, because the Judo classes were held at my Primary school!
I was bullied at Secondary school and never had courage to stand up for myself even though I would get into fights at primary school all the time, even with bigger kids, but somehow I seemed to lose my confidence when I got to secondary school! It was only just over 5 years ago I started learning Kung Fu which I have enjoyed a lot! But I think the psychological damage has been done because of the bullying! I have started to do some semi contact sparring and if I can get more practice with that, atleast getting hit won't be such a big deal!
Fear though can be a good ally if you know how to use it! While I was sparring I found it is a big help because I kept ducking when the guy I was sparring with charge at me, which meant he would not have got the point and therefore leaves him vulnerable! Hopefully all this will help in a real confontation!

 

[Sapper6]

i agree w/ 7*...fear CAN be good. find the balance that works for you. possessing too much fear within you can turn you into a paranoid freak.

 

[theletch1]

Tony, Have you considered attending a self assertion class or something of the like? Seems like you are doing your best to become proficient in your art but still lack that little something to transfer the more violent aspects of your art to the street. Perhaps something like the self assertion class would teach you that you are indeed worth standing up for, that it's o.k. to use violence in some situations and that your skills won't fall apart at the first sign of a "real" attack. Best of luck.

 

[Tony]

Tony, Have you considered attending a self assertion class or something of the like? Seems like you are doing your best to become proficient in your art but still lack that little something to transfer the more violent aspects of your art to the street. Perhaps something like the self assertion class would teach you that you are indeed worth standing up for, that it's o.k. to use violence in some situations and that your skills won't fall apart at the first sign of a "real" attack. Best of luck.

Hi jeff

I am actually seeing a therapist but it is a slow process, but I have made soem progress! But I guess I am uncomfortable with dealing with agressive people, and I have problems standing up for myself verbally! I always back down and then get ashamed afterward for not saying anything!
My instructor will occasionally make do take the class warmups and I guess that helps in using my voice more, but it can be quite nerve racking!
Thanks for your advice, maybe assertion classes are something I should consider!

 

[Gary Crawford]

Tony! Let me share with you how I finally overcame most of the paralizing fear.I learned to sell.That's right sell.Most good salesmen are fearless.Why? because the never consider loosing.They are so focused on their goals that eveything else doesn't matter.They also have a serious need for people to like them,that overcomes phisical threats all by itself.It's a way of learning to take control of a situation by skillfully asking questions in a way that assures someone that you are not the enemy and you have their needs in mind.I have talked my way out of so many altercations that I couldn't count them.Tony,you are a very likable guy,you can do this.Maybe you could give it a real try by getting a job selling something,anything as long as it's something you personally beleive in without lying.I sold new cars for 11 yrs(not easy for the timid).Find something you really like and have a lot of knowlege of.You will learn a lot about yourself!

 

[Tony]

Tony! Let me share with you how I finally overcame most of the paralizing fear.I learned to sell.That's right sell.Most good salesmen are fearless.Why? because the never consider loosing.They are so focused on their goals that eveything else doesn't matter.They also have a serious need for people to like them,that overcomes phisical threats all by itself.It's a way of learning to take control of a situation by skillfully asking questions in a way that assures someone that you are not the enemy and you have their needs in mind.I have talked my way out of so many altercations that I couldn't count them.Tony,you are a very likable guy,you can do this.Maybe you could give it a real try by getting a job selling something,anything as long as it's something you personally beleive in without lying.I sold new cars for 11 yrs(not easy for the timid).Find something you really like and have a lot of knowlege of.You will learn a lot about yourself!

Thanks Gary

This suggestion of yours sounds like a great idea and it seems to have helped you! One of my friends suggested I work in a pub so I could overcome my fear of talking to strangers! But I have been in a similar Customer Service role, where it was mostly face to face and I hated it because I could not deal with the aggressive customers, the ones who were complaining. Jobs like these often contain problems that soon arise that I am not equipped to deal with, because I am not an assertive person! I have even had jobs asking Market Research questions over the phone and it was so demoralising when people are rude and don't want to answer your questions! I was getting totallly flustered and I remember that job was something I only did for a day!
Sometimes though my instructor will make me take the class warm ups, which can be very nerve racking but not so bad, but it can be difficult thinking of other things to do on the spot!

 

[loki09789]

Tony,

By taking MA classes and doing some of the things you are already doing, you are either knowingly or not applying confrontational therapy techniques:

We fear what we don't understand and don't understand what we don't know. So, our irrational or excessive response to fears are based on either no actual or a very limited albeit bad experience with the subject we fear. The other way is that we have been beat down by a particular thing for so long that we have engrained reactions to anything that is similar to that thing. I.E. verbally/physically abusing parents and the child will react to criticism from teachers/others the same way - even if the intent/actions are not the same, but only similar. You are responding to the internal experience more than the actual external reality.

With this as the premise, regular controllable doses of confronting the thing we fear actually forces us to consciously connect our reactions to the stimulus. When we are conscious of it, trained/caring people can help us realize that we are only responding out of habit and not based on the real situation at hand.... little by little we gain a better assessment of the reality and move away from the emotional/psychological reactions that create inaccurate assumptions and responses....

My fiance, as an example, refuses to eat at a certain restaraunt because she got sick there once over 10 years ago. Now if it were a conscious, rational choice because she knew it was the quality of service/food prep I wouldn't roll my eyes (not in front of her though), but the refusal is based on that one experience, and come on, it's Olive Garden....I LOVE Olive Garden .

I have a book title that I will find that is a Sports Psych who uses Taosist philosophy as part of his practice... great stuff for personal awarenes and training of the "SELF" more than the body.

Paul M.

 

[loki09789]

I found the title. Go to Amazon, and you can find other similar books by this writing team.

Working Out, Working Within: The Tao on Inner Fitness Through Sports
by Authors: Jerry Lynch , Chungliang Al Huang , Al Chung-Liang Huang , Chungliang Al Huang
Released: April, 1999
ISBN: 0874779685
Paperback

Sales Rank: 96,027
List price: $13.95
Our price: $11.16

 

[Shotochem]

Fear is due to insecurity. When you develop confidence in yourself, fear can be controlled to where it will not paraliyze
or consume you.

 

[loki09789]

Fear is due to insecurity. When you develop confidence in yourself, fear can be controlled to where it will not paraliyze
or consume you.

I agree with this idea to a degree, but what does that development you mentioned look like?

How does this concept of fear address the fear experienced during natural disasters, combat, car accidents.... these instances of fear reaction would seem to be more self preservation out of control than lack of confidence to myself. I would treat it like emotional 'shin toughening' by using regular, controllable doses of exposure to desensitize my mind/body so that I don't experience hyper-reactions - which usually happens with first time/infrequent experiences.

I think fear reactions can be defined as insecurity in some cases. But, training/adapting to fear would require it to also be recognized as a chemical/emotional/neurological reaction to percieved threats.

Dealing with that type of fear is the 'get right back on the horse' type of training. If I get hit by a back fist, I could flinch when ever I see a back fist coming after that moment unless I train that flinch out of my reactions by getting back on the horse of facing backfist.

Maybe retraining my ability to read the backfist and reaction to it would help build confidence in myself and my skill as well as 'deprogramming' paralysis due to fear.