Favorite Form?

[JR 137]

Ah too many... also a big fan of Sanchin. Definitely Tensho. Pinan Ni and Yon, Seiunchin, Yantsu, Empi..

Watching: Kanku Dai, Kururunfa, Seisan

Of the Pinan katas, I have to say 4 and 5 are by far my favorite. I don’t know why, but Pinan 3 has always been my least favorite. I’m also not a fan of Kyokushin’s Gekisai Sho. I learned it at shodan during my first stint in karate. It just didn’t feel like a black belt kata the way Seiunchin does. Had it been a brown belt kata, I’d have probably liked it more. And that it’s mistakingly attributed to Chojun Miyagi makes it worse for me. No way it’s Miyagi’s kata. Maybe Nei-Cho So’s kata (one of Oyama’s Goju teachers), but most likely it’s Oyama’s kata. Not that there’s anything wrong with it being Oyama’s.

I really like Yantsu. I think it’s because it’s quite rare outside of Kyokushin and offshoots. It’s also done by a Shito Ryu school, and is usually called Ansan, but sometimes referred to as Yantsu. Honestly, I like the Shito Ryu version more...

Kyokushin version for reference...

My kata for next rank will be Tsuki-No kata. I think I’m really going to like that one.

 

[_Simon_]

It's really cool watching all the vids you guys have posted, gives a really good scope of different forms. The Chinese MA forms are utterly fascinating.. such amazing flow and fluidity. I honestly don't understand them in the slightest haha but that's only cos I'm very used to the karate way of forms. They're very cool . I've always wondered how they judges go about judging forms in all styles competitions.. They're so different...

And YES William Oliver was something else... his katas are incredible. Such meaning behind them, and he puts everything into them.

 

[_Simon_]

Of the Pinan katas, I have to say 4 and 5 are by far my favorite. I don’t know why, but Pinan 3 has always been my least favorite. I’m also not a fan of Kyokushin’s Gekisai Sho. I learned it at shodan during my first stint in karate. It just didn’t feel like a black belt kata the way Seiunchin does. Had it been a brown belt kata, I’d have probably liked it more. And that it’s mistakingly attributed to Chojun Miyagi makes it worse for me. No way it’s Miyagi’s kata. Maybe Nei-Cho So’s kata (one of Oyama’s Goju teachers), but most likely it’s Oyama’s kata. Not that there’s anything wrong with it being Oyama’s.

I really like Yantsu. I think it’s because it’s quite rare outside of Kyokushin and offshoots. It’s also done by a Shito Ryu school, and is usually called Ansan, but sometimes referred to as Yantsu. Honestly, I like the Shito Ryu version more...

Kyokushin version for reference...

My kata for next rank will be Tsuki-No kata. I think I’m really going to like that one.

Hehe yeah I'm a bit the same with Pinan San! Some of it I can gel with, but some parts just feel awkward, especially the middle-ish section with the fists on hips, mae geri to kinsetsu geri etc.. Love Pinan Yon.. I performed that at a comp last year as it's one I could really connect with, as well as being a bit challenging in certain areas and got first place, was really great to perform that one.

Ah yep fair enough about Gekisai Sho, I quite like it, and wow I didn't realise it may have come from Nei-Cho So!! I have "The Budo Karate of Mas Oyama" ebook by Shihan Cameron Quinn and it talks about him, I find him fascinating and really want to learn more about him and his influence on Sosai Oyama. Mainly because of his spiritual influence I really wanna know more... (by the way... an EPIC read that ebook).

Ah wow I didn't realise Yantsu was also called Ansan and also performed Shito-ryu.. cheers for the vid! That version's great.

Ahhh yes Tsuki-No kata, I quite enjoyed learning that one. I had to do it for my 6th or 5th Kyu grading, and yeah we used to in the past do it the way it's done in Seido. In Seido I believe the first move you step back into yon ju go kiba dachi with gedan barai, whereas we now step forward into it. I really love all the stance transitions in that one, it's really good for practicing that!

 

[JR 137]

Hehe yeah I'm a bit the same with Pinan San! Some of it I can gel with, but some parts just feel awkward, especially the middle-ish section with the fists on hips, mae geri to kinsetsu geri etc.. Love Pinan Yon.. I performed that at a comp last year as it's one I could really connect with, as well as being a bit challenging in certain areas and got first place, was really great to perform that one.

Ah yep fair enough about Gekisai Sho, I quite like it, and wow I didn't realise it may have come from Nei-Cho So!! I have "The Budo Karate of Mas Oyama" ebook by Shihan Cameron Quinn and it talks about him, I find him fascinating and really want to learn more about him and his influence on Sosai Oyama. Mainly because of his spiritual influence I really wanna know more... (by the way... an EPIC read that ebook).

Ah wow I didn't realise Yantsu was also called Ansan and also performed Shito-ryu.. cheers for the vid! That version's great.

Ahhh yes Tsuki-No kata, I quite enjoyed learning that one. I had to do it for my 6th or 5th Kyu grading, and yeah we used to in the past do it the way it's done in Seido. In Seido I believe the first move you step back into yon ju go kiba dachi with gedan barai, whereas we now step forward into it. I really love all the stance transitions in that one, it's really good for practicing that!

Here’s my take on Gekisai Sho...
Every book and source pretty much repeats the same thing (paraphrased) “Gekisai Dai and Gekisai Sho were created by Chojun Miyagi of Goju Ryu. Instead of numbering them, they use dai and sho (large and small) as a suffix.” Nope. Goju has Gekisai Dai ichi and Gekisai Dai ni. Goju’s ni looks nothing like sho; Goju’s ni is the same as ichi, except it does 2 enki mawashi ukes at the end (like in Sanchin). I’ve never seen ANY lineage outside of an Oyama lineage do Gekisai Sho. If it was Miyagi’s kata, SOMEONE else would do it too. I mean, at least one lineage, right? I don’t know So’s lineage to look it up to see if they do, but again it’s highly doubtful. The earliest source is Steve Arneil saying it’s Miyagi’s kata, and every other source seems like a cut and paste. Arneil is very credible, and perhaps this is what Oyama told him. Perhaps Miyagi really did teach Oyama that kata and no one else. Highly, highly unlikely that he didn’t teach it to anyone else as he had a lot more students that were his actual long-term students and higher ranking. I don’t think Oyama spent any significant time with Miyagi; his Goju teachers were Yamaguchi and So. And if So developed it, someone outside of Oyama’s lineage would be doing it too, but there’s no one else I’ve seen do it. Doesn’t mean no one else does, but I’ve looked quite a bit and haven’t found it anywhere else. The only realistic counter to my argument is if Oyama developed it, why didn’t he claim it? He openly admitted he significantly altered some kata such as Gojushiho (and renaming it Sushiho), Kanku and Sepai, and created Garyu, so why not Gekisai Sho?

If it was Miyagi’s, So’s or Yamaguchi’s kata, someone in their lineage would also be doing it, but there’s no one for any of those doing it that I nor anyone else I’ve asked/read about have seen.

Look up Goju Ryu Gekisai Sho videos; they don’t exist. The only mention of Gekisai Sho anywhere is Kyokushin and offshoots.

Rant over

 

[_Simon_]

Haha yeah fair enough, actually come to think of it I remember looking for videos of variations on Gekisai Sho awhile ago when I was learning it and couldn't find anything at all, apart from Kyokushin versions, and also Gekisai Dai Ichi and Ni. Bizarre ay!