Fake black belts

Tony Dismukes

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Another problem is there is still some weird idea in the West that Shodan (first degree black belt) is a teacher. This is simply not the case.
I'd rephrase that to "there is still some weird idea (among people all over the world) that Shodan (or any other rank) means or should mean the same thing across different arts, schools, and organizations."

In some schools, the expected requirement for a first degree black belt might be that you show up 2-3 times per week for 2-3 years, memorize some kata, demonstrate some techniques in tests, and do a bit of light sparring.

In other schools, the expected requirement might be that you spend 10-15 years pouring in blood, sweat, and tears, fighting and competing, and demonstrate the ability to win fights using a high degree of technical skill.

For some schools, the requirements might include practice in actual teaching and developing pedagogical skills. Others have no such requirements.

Many schools fall in-between those two extremes or even outside them. None of those standards are objectively "better" or more "correct" than the others. They're just different and if you want to know what (if anything) a person's rank means, then you need to know the standards applied by the person(s) who awarded that rank. BTW - I don't know that "high" vs "low" standards for black belt correspond to "East" vs "West" in any meaningful way.

(As a side note - the ability to teach is only loosely correlated with the ability to perform an art at a high level. If you want to become a boxer, you're better off learning from a Cus D'Amato than a Mike Tyson.)
 
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Jimmythebull

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Well it isn't just crap. It isnt an indication whether the guy being tested can do martial art things.

If it was crap it would actually be better. If he was garbage and failed at every point. He would at least had data to work from.
Ahhh....but sometimes the puzzle is a puzzle. Master Po...不
 

Steve

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Well it isn't just crap. It isnt an indication whether the guy being tested can do martial art things.

If it was crap it would actually be better. If he was garbage and failed at every point. He would at least had data to work from.
He might be a total badass, but is he more likely to survive a violent situation than someone with no training? Who knows?
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Well it isn't just crap. It isnt an indication whether the guy being tested can do martial art things.

If it was crap it would actually be better. If he was garbage and failed at every point. He would at least had data to work from.
Fair enough. Its worthless, much like crap.
 
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Jimmythebull

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As I said karate is not included in the education curriculum. It's not Sogo Budo.
So I'm sure a lot of these masters know each other or hear about who's who in various style in Japan. What if I was say training in a small traditional Dojo in say aikido..if I later moved to say Tokio & trained at the Aikikai would it be recognised?
 

Hyoho

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So I'm sure a lot of these masters know each other or hear about who's who in various style in Japan. What if I was say training in a small traditional Dojo in say aikido..if I later moved to say Tokio & trained at the Aikikai would it be recognised?
It would be better if you could come here with the same organization. But yes, it's possible.
 
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Jimmythebull

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It would be better if you could come here with the same organization. But yes, it's possible.
I really like Tomiki Aikido too. Never been to Japan..maybe one day. So do you have a cute japanese wife?
 

tkdroamer

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Relevant tangent here. There was a guy named Thorstein Veblen who is most famous for coining the phrase conspicuous consumption. He also described something called ceremonial adequacy.

where credentials are concerned, sometimes experience and ability are not enough. You can be an extremely talented welder, but you cant work in Washington state without the appropriate certification. Similarly, you cant put 5 credits short of a Bachelors degree on your resume.

And sometimes, where credentials are required, a less competent person may be more qualified.
This is very true. But the opposite can frequently be found in the real world. We have all seen people with various certificates hanging on a wall who fell far short of being able to apply their alleged knowledge.
I would say the skill of someone who does not flaunt their credentials is less obvious. Until they smack you beside the head while sparring. :)
 
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Jimmythebull

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This is very true. But the opposite can frequently be found in the real world. We have all seen people with various certificates hanging on a wall who fell far short of being able to apply their alleged knowledge.
I would say the skill of someone who does not flaunt their credentials is less obvious. Until they smack you beside the head while sparring. :)
I like some of the old training systems like in most traditional FMA, no belts just either you can or can織t do it. everyone knows.
 

tkdroamer

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I like some of the old training systems like in most traditional FMA, no belts just either you can or can織t do it. everyone knows.
As I have gotten older, the belt/rank thing means very little to me.
It is really all about perspective.
An instructor will use belting as an organizational tool.
A young, competitive person will see it as the next level of competition.
A casual learner will see the next belt as a milestone.
A narcissist will see it as crowing rights.
 
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Jimmythebull

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As I have gotten older, the belt/rank thing means very little to me.
It is really all about perspective.
An instructor will use belting as an organizational tool.
A young, competitive person will see it as the next level of competition.
A casual learner will see the next belt as a milestone.
A narcissist will see it as crowing rights.
yeah ...like i wrote you can do it or you can織t..if you can you are well known as a "doer" anyway. My only problem is the people who say they can & can織t & teach just rubbish..& take money from honest hard working people .
 

tkdroamer

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yeah ...like i wrote you can do it or you can織t..if you can you are well known as a "doer" anyway. My only problem is the people who say they can & can織t & teach just rubbish..& take money from honest hard working people .
Fully agree. But this is talking about a completely different topic.
 
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