Fake black belts

Gerry Seymour

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He just also ignored the mod warning and called me "intransigent". Ouch, yet another personal attack. This guy.

Oh well, some people never learn.

I could post the specific Ohio law that addresses illegal martial arts advertising in his state, but that will probably just enrage him further. He needs to have the final say.
You seem to read rage into a lot of posts that are much calmer than that on the surface.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Anyone experienced this? Not just BJJ but in any art. Luckily I've never come across this myself. It's dangerous though if this guy was teaching kids.
People with ranks not awarded by someone else are everywhere. Some of them arent good at what they do, but Im not sure the self-awarded rank is what makes them bad, given the variability between organizations in what a BB even means when awarded.
 

drop bear

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People with ranks not awarded by someone else are everywhere. Some of them arent good at what they do, but Im not sure the self-awarded rank is what makes them bad, given the variability between organizations in what a BB even means when awarded.

I think inoki awarded himself belts. But he could eat black belts alive.
 

geezer

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haha....no idea what it means. will have to google it :D
Ok, now maybe I'm over thinking this. When hobos and vagabonds settle down in an encampment and refuse to move, are they intransigent transients?

And what does any of this have to do with black belts or martial fakery? I suppose I could dig out my old copy of.....


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Jimmythebull

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You seem to read rage into a lot of posts that are much calmer than that on the surface.
Maybe he sees things deeper?
Be still water, Master Po....
People with ranks not awarded by someone else are everywhere. Some of them arent good at what they do, but Im not sure the self-awarded rank is what makes them bad, given the variability between organizations in what a BB even means when awarded.
Taking money from people & pretending to be something they're not is cheating them. Especially if he's/ she's teaching rubbish like what apparently was the case with the BBJ "black belt"
But I'm repeating myself here. Already said my opinions on this.
 
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Gerry Seymour

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I think inoki awarded himself belts. But he could eat black belts alive.
And I know some guys (not in that same class) who went independent and awarded themselves ranks over time. In both cases, they were still as good (or sometimes bad) as they would have been without that rank. Some probably ought to have done so earlier, to better fit with the standard within their art.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Maybe he sees things deeper?
Be still water, Master Po....

Taking money from people & pretending to be something they're not is cheating them. Especially if he's/ she's teaching rubbish like what apparently was the case with the BBJ "black belt"
But I'm repeating myself here. Already said my opinions on this.
But we need to be clear on what they are (or are not) pretending to be. See, many of them are pretending to be any good at what they do, regardelss of their rank. Some of those have rank awarded by associations. Some of those ranks were awarded by sources we wouldn't consider legitimate (no real standards to speak of), but they meet the definition of having been awarded that rank.

Then there are people who actually are good at teaching their art, who never reached the rank level of BB within their association. But they'd clearly now be at the level of those who did. So, if they take a rank that's reasonable to their actual skill level, that likely shouldn't be an issue for most folks (as long as they don't claim it was awarded by someone who didn't do so).
 
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Jimmythebull

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But we need to be clear on what they are (or are not) pretending to be
yes a liar & cheat. either you織re legitimate Gerry or not. no Grey zone. (my opinion)
but they meet the definition of having been awarded that rank.
lost me here, in my world you either have qualified or you haven織t. Just because i can do a double spinning kick practised in my back yard dosen織t mean i織m qualified to teach your children. c織mon Gerry get real !

Then there are people who actually are good at teaching their art, who never reached the rank level of BB within their association. But they'd clearly now be at the level of those who did. So, if they take a rank that's reasonable to their actual skill level, that likely shouldn't be an issue for most folks (as long as they don't claim it was awarded by someone who didn't do so).
There certainly are brown belts who teach & could in theory be a black belt. See Gerry a standard has to bet set to stop this sort of nonsence. Either i pass a driving test or i don織t but i can drive. get it?
Tests are so we have a set standard...no grey zone. simple as that.
 
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Jimmythebull

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now then i will add that back in the old days in say escrima it ws tought & passed down without belts..etc. Wing chun too but if you opened a school you were challanged. Either you can or can織t do it but in sticking with Gerry織s points, these guys are not claiming to be a black belt but can do it (maybe).
See gerry how fair am i ..giving you a chance here ;):)
 

Oily Dragon

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You seem to read rage into a lot of posts that are much calmer than that on the surface.
I read "no..no...no..nope" in multiple block quote beatdowns, after basically reading up on the FTC and Ohio AG website and sharing my personal experience. Was even called fake on the BBB...an org I never even brought up! WTH!?

It's just weird to me, to be called out as making false statements. I'm just paraphrasing legal authorities. I'm not debating anyone's opinions, that's a big waste of time IMHO.

I think he' genuinely angry, for some reason. This topic cut close to the bone. Ok
 
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Gerry Seymour

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yes a liar & cheat. either you織re legitimate Gerry or not. no Grey zone. (my opinion)

lost me here, in my world you either have qualified or you haven織t. Just because i can do a double spinning kick practised in my back yard dosen織t mean i織m qualified to teach your children. c織mon Gerry get real !


There certainly are brown belts who teach & could in theory be a black belt. See Gerry a standard has to bet set to stop this sort of nonsence. Either i pass a driving test or i don織t but i can drive. get it?
Tests are so we have a set standard...no grey zone. simple as that.
Again, ranks only mean what they mean within a group. If you leave an association, you are independent and get to choose what the ranks mean. At that point, if you meet your designated qualifications, you qualify for that rank.

The lie would be in stating you received that rank from a source that didnt award it to you.
 

Gerry Seymour

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now then i will add that back in the old days in say escrima it ws tought & passed down without belts..etc. Wing chun too but if you opened a school you were challanged. Either you can or can織t do it but in sticking with Gerry織s points, these guys are not claiming to be a black belt but can do it (maybe).
See gerry how fair am i ..giving you a chance here ;):)
A chance for?
 

drop bear

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Could this guy be considered a fake? 五

Technically no. According to the value set we use here.

Now if you did want an easy method to determine a usable skill from an unusable one.

This is pretty much the definition of the difference between a fake martial art and a real one.

 
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