Experience in a SD seminar

[Gerry Seymour]

I would be interested in knowing your experience.
But also maybe we could all discuss in a non specific way that would not be pointed at any particular group how industry training fails.
For myself I have taught prison guards out side of the correctional system. They would come back from some of their state required training and talk about how useless it was. So why is that? I believe in part it is because state or company training is only provided for liability reasons to protect the institution and have no real interest in the application and effectiveness of what is being taught. Second; the program selection is often more about political connections then content and those in charge of the selection process have no more experience on the subject that what can be found on Google and netflix. But because they are "in charge" they have the self conflated image of being right.

I think part of the problem is that in many cases the people authorizing the training (administrators) feel like they should specify what the training must be/include. Often, they aren't actually qualified to do this, so the specifications they create actually hamper the training. It might include restrictions on training methods, specific techniques/approaches that can't be taught (they had an almost-injury once, so "X" can't be taught), and requirements that specific approaches be taught. The latter isn't necessarily a hindrance, unless you bring in a trainer who's not versed in that specific method. So, if it required that a BJJ-style ground arm bar is taught, that wouldn't be an issue if the trainer knows that technique well enough to cover when to use it, how to use it, and can teach it efficiently. But if I was the trainer, that'd be a problem, because my experience with that technique is rather thin (more about defending against it).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head in your post.

I've attended seminars supposedly designed for the corporate world and well ...to me as you say it about covering liability more than anything. I am not saying that the instructors are all necessarily bad (some I have come across were in their own rights well versed martial artists) but how they distill things down into one two or three days is where most of the issues lie imo. I was at one that was supposedly teaching techs for the employees to have some form of SD training as one of the employees had been attacked on way home from work close to the building they worked in. I happened to be there as my late wife was an employee and I basically stuck my nose in (it ran over three nights).

What they "taught" was ok in as much as they did go into depth about the being aware sticking to populated areas trying to avoid unlit areas at night etc which is all standard stuff ...when it came to the tech they chose again basically nothing wrong essentially just imo how can you teach any person things in basically 6 hours (2 hour classes) that (a) they going to remember (b) they going to be able to apply (c) they are even able to apply ... not being critical overly but things to become second nature it takes a bit of time and sometimes individual attention to break things down as not all folks get things right off.

This is just my opinion but is corporations etc really want to "do" that for their staff etc then they would be much better doing so on a revolving basis as in like people attend a class every week , do it that way so it is revolving and things can be looked at on an ongoing basis and also any individual concerns can be addressed etc as opposed to running the "token" SD lecture but that just my opinion.

And yes it is all down to the people who control the money what is offered and a snazy website they look at can sway people into choosing that company to provide ...and as you rightly said if the finance guys really don't know then not always are they gonna make the right choice

You hit on the issue with seminars, in general. We can't really convey skill in a few hours to people who have no base to work from. Heck, when I go to a MA seminar, I'm not usually going to retain actual techniques, but just information I can use to improve what I already know. If they know almost nothing about physical defensive technique, there's only so much you can do to help. I think focusing too much on "finishing" is a flaw in many SD seminars. The focus should be the initial reaction (after the non-physical areas have been covered). And it should be made clear that continued practice is necessary if they want to actually be able to do these things.

I'd love to have a corporate client who put up for a weekly class for employees. I've never heard of one doing so, but it'd cost less than a lot of other employee benefits, and would bring some good to them (aspects of fitness, camaraderie, etc.).

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is certainly true of the training given to hospital staff.
I always attend, because it's mandatory. But I spend most of the time facepalming and biting my tongue.

Been in mandatory SD training given by the hospital I use to work at...and the class was given by a nun..... pretty much spent most of that class like this

Did you know it takes 5 people to take someone down...2 for each arm, 2 for the legs and one to cradle the head so the person being taken down does not get hurt......

 

[Xue Sheng]

I decided against leaving this post up, since some of you may know or be able to figure out what hospital I work at, and it wasn't exactly a positive post. Saving it in my email just in case I ever decide to post it, so if any of you want to read it I can pm it to you, but not leaving it out in public for now.

You got me interested, would you mind sending me the PM too....have to admit, you have a great way of getting all of us on MT to ask for more info....you should consider a career in sales

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Been in mandatory SD training given by the hospital I use to work at...and the class was given by a nun..... pretty much spent most of that class like this

Did you know it takes 5 people to take someone down...2 for each arm, 2 for the legs and one to cradle the head so the person being taken down does not get hurt......

Wow. She sounds far less intimidating than the nuns at the Catholic school I went to as a kid. I'm pretty sure any one of them could still take me down, with just a ruler and a stare.

 

[pdg]

Wow. She sounds far less intimidating than the nuns at the Catholic school I went to as a kid. I'm pretty sure any one of them could still take me down, with just a ruler and a stare.

Not a reflection on you, but I'm surprised they need a ruler

 

[Xue Sheng]

Wow. She sounds far less intimidating than the nuns at the Catholic school I went to as a kid. I'm pretty sure any one of them could still take me down, with just a ruler and a stare.

I know, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be so lame. I was expecting we would all be given metal edged rulers...but NOOOOOOOOO. I mean I never went to a Catholic School, but I have heard all the stories from those that did

There was a move taught to show you how to get someone to stop pulling your hair..... a couple slaps to the persons hand was all you needed.....she did not like my lock their hand to my head, bend over, lock them and ride them to the wall routine at all....it might hurt the person who was just trying to hurt me...and we don't want to injure them you know...... she also seemed to be oblivious that there were rather large detox and mental health units in that hospital, many of whom were brought in by the police in cuffs...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I know, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be so lame. I was expecting we would all be given metal edged rulers...but NOOOOOOOOO. I mean I never went to a Catholic School, but I have heard all the stories from those that did

There was a move taught to show you how to get someone to stop pulling your hair..... a couple slaps to the persons hand was all you needed.....she did not like my lock their hand to my head, bend over, lock them and ride them to the wall routine at all....it might hurt the person who was just trying to hurt me...and we don't want to injure them you know...... she also seemed to be oblivious that there were rather large detox and mental health units in that hospital, many of whom were brought in by the police in cuffs...

Wow.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Now I'm curious as well add me to the list I'd like to read about the seminar.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think I sent more private messages since posting this then throughout the 6 years I was on the site.

You got me interested, would you mind sending me the PM too....have to admit, you have a great way of getting all of us on MT to ask for more info....you should consider a career in sales

Entirely accidental, I promise you.

 

[Martial D]

Having now read it, all I can really say is...


Yup.

Self defense as it is today is garbage for the most part. You just can't learn to effectivly 'do' any of the non verbal part under any sort of pressure when all you have is a few hours of stuff you only kind of remember 6 months down the road.

To make it 'effective' requires a lot more time investment and quality of training. AFAIK there is no acreditation for SD instruction, so you could get Bas Rutten, but you could also get Mr bean. And if you know nothing you have no way of knowing who is who.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Wow.

And don't get me started on the verbal de-escalation techniques..... we all know how reasonable a bleeding heroin addict in need of a fix is right...(yup, dealt with one of those too..... and sadly I never once used the verbal techniques they taught as to finding out what their reasoning was for these actions, or making them feel safe, and letting them know I was here to help them in order to calm them down.)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And don't get me started on the verbal de-escalation techniques..... we all know how reasonable a bleeding heroin addict in need of a fix is right...(yup, dealt with one of those too..... and sadly I never once used the verbal techniques they taught as to finding out what their reasoning was for these actions, or making them feel safe, and letting them know I was here to help them in order to calm them down.)

Possibly good advice for dealing with an annoyed customer. Unless that annoyed customer is a raging heroin addict.

 

[hoshin1600]

I'd love to have a corporate client who put up for a weekly class for employees. I've never heard of one doing so, but it'd cost less than a lot of other employee benefits, and would bring some good to them (aspects of fitness, camaraderie, etc.).

I've actually done this but it has to fall into the fitness classification. Many companies provide on sight fitness.

 

[oftheherd1]

Sent! If anyone else wants to read it, let me know.

I would appreciate a PM on that as well.

 

[Buka]

I have written a detailed, step by step way to fix the entire problem. But I'm not about to post it.

See this tree?

I buried it at the base of this tree on Maui during a rainbow.

Come get it. I have beer and pizza.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I have written a detailed, step by step way to fix the entire problem. But I'm not about to post it.

See this tree?

View attachment 21711

I buried it at the base of this tree on Maui during a rainbow.

Come get it. I have beer and pizza.

I so wish I had the time to take you up on that offer. One day I will.

 

[JR 137]

Wow. She sounds far less intimidating than the nuns at the Catholic school I went to as a kid. I'm pretty sure any one of them could still take me down, with just a ruler and a stare.

I teach at a catholic school. My very first question after I officially accepted the job was “now that I’m a catholic school teacher, can I use the ruler?” My boss’s reply “only nuns are licensed to wield rulers.” We both had a good laugh.

I didn’t go to catholic school, but I for all intents and purposes I might as well have - I’ve learned over the years that about 1/3 of my teachers were ex-nuns. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 6th grade, and several in junior and senior high school. One teacher retired the year I graduated and became a priest. I didn’t think my hometown was that religious.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I teach at a catholic school. My very first question after I officially accepted the job was “now that I’m a catholic school teacher, can I use the ruler?” My boss’s reply “only nuns are licensed to wield rulers.” We both had a good laugh.

I didn’t go to catholic school, but I for all intents and purposes I might as well have - I’ve learned over the years that about 1/3 of my teachers were ex-nuns. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 6th grade, and several in junior and senior high school. One teacher retired the year I graduated and became a priest. I didn’t think my hometown was that religious.

One of my brother's teachers left the convent after his last class. Yep, my brother drove a nun away from her faith.

Maybe she went on to teach you.

 

[JR 137]

One of my brother's teachers left the convent after his last class. Yep, my brother drove a nun away from her faith.

Maybe she went on to teach you.

Probably

The worst was 3rd grade - ex-nun from iron curtain Poland. She slapped me around a few times. I didn’t know it until a few years ago, but apparently my father physically threatened her in a parent-teacher conference with the principal present. He told her “if you hit my son again, I’ll hit you. You want to put your hands on someone who you shouldn’t put your hands on? I’ll return the favor. You’ve been warned.” That was the 3rd meeting they had with her about hitting me.

This was the early 80s when people weren’t immediately arrested or fired for stuff like that. My mother told me that story a few years ago. That was the third meeting they had about hitting me. Best part of it was I wasn’t close to being the worst behaved kid in that class, and I got it less than most others.