ethnocentric?

[opr1945140 26]

Let me see if I got this.

Karate started with an Indian monk Bodhidharma. He brought it to China. Where it acquired Chinese names.

Then was carried to Okinawa and given Okinawan names. Then it spread to Mainland Japan and given Japanese names.

Also to Korea where it was given Korean names.

Also to the US where it mostly kept Japanese names. (Even some recently created styles in the US have been given Japanese names?)

 

[Badhabits]

The whole Bodhidharma thing is up for debate.
Okinawa had its own indigenous fighting methods that were pollinated by southern Chinese methods, karate was eventually born from this. From there, yeah it was spread to other countries who modified it for their own purposes. There's a pretty good rabbit hole as far as karate history goes. If you like that sort of thing it's worth doing some deeper research.

 

[Same Trick87 38]

Let me see if I got this.

Karate started with an Indian monk Bodhidharma. He brought it to China. Where it acquired Chinese names.

Then was carried to Okinawa and given Okinawan names. Then it spread to Mainland Japan and given Japanese names.

Also to Korea where it was given Korean names.

Also to the US where it mostly kept Japanese names. (Even some recently created styles in the US have been given Japanese names?)

Bodhidharma - holds a deeper meaning, that proves true in what you are writing here - something(an enlightenment) that spread out all over to all parts, in your case of notice - to all parts of the world.

Bodhidharma - holds a numerical value of-2, and so refers to our universal reality of yin and yang. So whatever the name of karate its deeper fundamental layers fits anywhere for anyone.

 

[Kung Fu Wang142 173]

Karate started with an Indian monk Bodhidharma.

What does Bodhidharma have anything to go with fist meet face?

 

[Haruhiko]

Karate started with an Indian monk Bodhidharma. He brought it to China. Where it acquired Chinese names.

I'm 90% this was made up by modern abots of the Shaolin Temple, and has been criticised heavily over the last hundred or so years.

Bodhidharma (JP. Daruma) was certainly instrumental in introducing Mahayana Buddhism to China and then formulating Chan/proto-Zen teachings, but the literature surrounding his involvement in Kung Fu is apparently embellished at best and fabricated at worst.

I found this:
“The Yi Jin Jing [a pseudo-martial-wellbeing text] was actually composed in the late Ming or early Qing period… the claim that Bodhidharma authored it is completely baseless.” (Tang Hao, “Shaolin Temple Boxing Origins,” 1930s research)

Martial arts didn't even appear to be recorded in any texts at the Shaolin Temple until centuries after his death, and no biographies during his lifetime mention anything to do with martial arts. Just sitting and meditating like a Chan/Zen Buddhist.

Karate, as I understand, was a culmination of indigenous jujutsu and the introduction of empty-hand Kung Fu from mainland China (not sure when the Kung Fu was introduced; and when it was, it was most certainly southern style as there are a lack of pronounced animal waza in karate's kamae), then as you pointed out rightly, moved to mainland Japan, Korea, etc.

As for the thread's title, while political, yes: after and during the cultural revolution, like Korea with Taekwondo, China usurped and rewrote history to promote certain agendas.

 

[frank raud85 1]

I've always had a problem with the Bodhiharma introduced martial arts to China, or all martial arts came from Shaolin temple. Basic human needs can be covered by the the Fs. Food, fight and procreate. You would consider me a fool if I told you Japan knew nothing about food until the Chinese showed them, or that the Chinese knew nothing of procreation until they were shown by an Indian monk. Could more refined versions be introduced by foreign cultures? Of course. We can see that in food, or the Kama Sutra. Doesn't mean that China, Japan or Korea were completely ignorant. A fighting culture existed in North America for centuries before the introduction of judo, karate and Kung fu.

 

[Same Trick87 38]

Bodhidharma, also referred as a “blue eyed foreigner” was in that case probably from Central Asia of some Turkish ethnicity.
Turkish tribes of Central Asia region has played a huge role in shaping Chinas history by wars and by holding power as ruling dynasties. It was most certainly from these sources that Buddhism came to China rather than directly from India, but not only Buddhism but also methods of warfare and thereby also a(nother) base for martial arts development .
Areas in chinas Henan province became a trading hub where ppl from Central Asia/Persia set up business and came to settle, and of this of course the nearby Shaolin temple could not have been unaffected by the great influx of new traditions of the “blue eyed” foreigners .

 

[Senpuu Ryu]

Let me see if I got this.

Karate started with an Indian monk Bodhidharma. He brought it to China. Where it acquired Chinese names.

Then was carried to Okinawa and given Okinawan names. Then it spread to Mainland Japan and given Japanese names.

Also to Korea where it was given Korean names.

Also to the US where it mostly kept Japanese names. (Even some recently created styles in the US have been given Japanese names?)

No. Bodhidharma did not start Karate. That is a debatable topic also. There is not much evidence that shows Bodhidharma started Chinese Kung Fu. The problem with Chinese history of Martial Arts is that there are not much of an evidence where they can prove its origin. Nevertheless, Karate started from Chinese Kung Fu. That's why when it went to Ryukyu Kingdom or Okinawa, it was still called "Chinese Hand". It was only when it was Japan had taken Okinawa, that they changed it to Karate or Empty Hand, in meaning, to JAPANICIZE it.

 

[opr1945140 26]

It seems many country want to claim martial arts adopted from someplace else as their own creation.

 

[Senpuu Ryu]

It seems many country want to claim martial arts adopted from someplace else as their own creation.

It's mostly the case. Indians claiming they are the origin of Chinese Kung Fu, Chinese claiming Karate is a safe space Kung Fu, then there's the people saying FMA is taken from Indonesian and Malaysian martial arts... one can claim and stuff, but it always boils down to History. If they can not prove it, their words are nothing but a sham, unless proven with documents and history.

The fact is, Bodhidharma came to China to teach Buddhism.

 

[Prince_Alarming79 15]

Right, so who started tai chi?

 

[windwalker099142 172]

The fact is, Bodhidharma came to China to teach Buddhism.

Bodhidharma definitely came to China to teach Buddhism, but over time stories tied him to Shaolin martial arts.

This carving shows that side of him. Historians say he was a monk and teacher, the connection to things like the Yijin Jing (易筋经, “Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic”) is more likely folklore than fact. He’s remembered as both a Zen master and a martial figure.

Other statues even martial styles were directly shaped by Buddhism practice

"
Yoga student and Wu Style Taijiquan Champion Wang Chun Ming learning Dabeiquan. Filmed at BLCU (Beijing, China) Spring 2009.

The physical practice of the Buddhist Great Compassion Mantra. Dabeiquan is not Taiji ... nor Yoga ... But something unique and in between. This practice travelled from India to China between 400-600AD. After the 13th Century Dabeiquan faded from common view. Most current practitioners trace their lineage back to the Shaolin Temple system. Hence, the strong wushu flavor of most modern Dabeiquan."

 

[Wing Woo Gar77]

I'm 90% this was made up by modern abots of the Shaolin Temple, and has been criticised heavily over the last hundred or so years.

Bodhidharma (JP. Daruma) was certainly instrumental in introducing Mahayana Buddhism to China and then formulating Chan/proto-Zen teachings, but the literature surrounding his involvement in Kung Fu is apparently embellished at best and fabricated at worst.

I found this:
“The Yi Jin Jing [a pseudo-martial-wellbeing text] was actually composed in the late Ming or early Qing period… the claim that Bodhidharma authored it is completely baseless.” (Tang Hao, “Shaolin Temple Boxing Origins,” 1930s research)

Martial arts didn't even appear to be recorded in any texts at the Shaolin Temple until centuries after his death, and no biographies during his lifetime mention anything to do with martial arts. Just sitting and meditating like a Chan/Zen Buddhist.

Karate, as I understand, was a culmination of indigenous jujutsu and the introduction of empty-hand Kung Fu from mainland China (not sure when the Kung Fu was introduced; and when it was, it was most certainly southern style as there are a lack of pronounced animal waza in karate's kamae), then as you pointed out rightly, moved to mainland Japan, Korea, etc.

As for the thread's title, while political, yes: after and during the cultural revolution, like Korea with Taekwondo, China usurped and rewrote history to promote certain agendas.

Regardless of its origins, Yi Jin Jing is one of the Chinese classics that informs training methodology.

 

[Same Trick87 38]

Right, so who started tai chi?

Trismegistus

 

[_Simon_142 172]

Right, so who started tai chi?

.... Look. I don't like to brag........

 

[Prince_Alarming79 15]

I remember reading somewhere that longfist actually predates the rest of Kung fu. Is that true?

 

[Flying Crane]

I remember reading somewhere that longfist actually predates the rest of Kung fu. Is that true?

I am doubtful if this kind of claim can be substantiated. People were developing their fighting methods throughout history and in all cultures. I am sure that in China, there were many methods that existed long before the Shaolin stuff got going, probably a wide range of methods.

Long fist is really a term that refers to a training methodology that uses large, exaggerated movements that help the body understand how to connect the parts into a unified, full-body movement. Lots of systems are long-fist systems, including the method that I train, Tibetan crane. Others like Choy Lay Fut and northern Shaolin long-fist, of which there are several.

 

[Headbald5]

Right, so who started tai chi?

Zhang Sanfeng. With Sanfeng meaning "triple crazy". Ok but seriously I don't know Zhang Sanfeng's background story. He could be a real or a mythological figure. Jet Li played him before but only got the Sanfeng name at the end of the movie.