Dubai police use enhanced interrogation on NYer.

[Bob Hubbard]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/0...il-time-united-arab-emirates/?test=latestnews

Foster claims police bound him to a chair and beat him. He said he was also forced to write a confession in Arabic.
"[One officer] proceeded to whip my feet and hit me in the face," Foster said. "He said this wouldn't stop until I confessed. He kept going and going and each time got more. … It was horrible. It got to the point where I would've told them anything they wanted to hear."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tortured-Dubai-police-souvenir-handcuffs.html

Foster said he was tortured and forced to write a confession in Arabic but he had no idea what it actually said.
'The pain was unimaginable so I told them I did it. I told them ''I'm sorry''. I have no idea what [the confession] said,' he told CNN by telephone.

Foster claims that after maintaining his innocence for several hours he was beaten and forced to confess.
He said he was told to take off his shoes and socks and handcuffed to a chair while one of the officers whipped the bottom of his feet. He said he was also punched in the face.

Sounds legal to me.

 

[Tez3]

A British man recently died while in custody in a Dubai police station, it's alleged he died after being badly beaten.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/14/holiday-briton-dies-in-dubai-police-custody

 

[billc]

this is the difference between waterboarding an unlawful enemy combatant captured on the battlefield and actually torturing a criminal suspect. The criminal suspect should not be beaten or waterboarded and should have been protected from the beating. In a beating like this there is both short and sometimes long term damage and in Tez's case it can lead to death. Wait...I thought that when Obama came to office all of this barbarity would be over. He even stopped waterboarding, you know, the mild form of interrogation that led to the capture of bin laden, so you would think that the rest of the world would have responded to his enlightened gesture. Hmmmm...I guess it didn't take.


Real torture, like the beating of the feet can take weeks to heal, unlike waterboarding where a dry towel is all you need.

*****DISCLAIMER:

I DO NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER, CONDONED ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES AGAINST CRIMINAL SUSPECTS CAPTURED IN THE UNITED STATES, BECAUSE THEY ARE PROTECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION. I DO NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER CONDONED OUTRIGHT TORTURE AS HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED IN THE POST ABOVE.

****END OF DISCLAIMER

 

[Tez3]

this is the difference between waterboarding an unlawful enemy combatant captured on the battlefield and actually torturing a criminal suspect. The criminal suspect should not be beaten or waterboarded and should have been protected from the beating. In a beating like this there is both short and sometimes long term damage and in Tez's case it can lead to death. Wait...I thought that when Obama came to office all of this barbarity would be over. He even stopped waterboarding, you know, the mild form of interrogation that led to the capture of bin laden, so you would think that the rest of the world would have responded to his enlightened gesture. Hmmmm...I guess it didn't take.


Real torture, like the beating of the feet can take weeks to heal, unlike waterboarding where a dry towel is all you need.

*****DISCLAIMER:

I DO NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER, CONDONED ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES AGAINST CRIMINAL SUSPECTS CAPTURED IN THE UNITED STATES, BECAUSE THEY ARE PROTECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION. I DO NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER CONDONED OUTRIGHT TORTURE AS HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED IN THE POST ABOVE.

****END OF DISCLAIMER

I take then you would be happy to demonstrate waterboarding is not torture. I shall expect the video of you being waterboarded then sitting up smiling immediately afterwards to be posted on here or YouTube. Dare yer.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Nope, it's all good Bill. All effective. We should allow the local PD in the US to use jumper cables and Adonis's Fists on jaywalkers.

I mean, what could Adonis's Fist ever damage?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I take then you would be happy to demonstrate waterboarding is not torture. I shall expect the video of you being waterboarded then sitting up smiling immediately afterwards to be posted on here or YouTube. Dare yer.

I think way back when I offered to be waterboarded if the folks declaring it ok would too.
Didn't get any takers if I recall.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

You guys realize this was done in Dubai right...
not in the USA

 

[Tez3]

You guys realize this was done in Dubai right...
not in the USA

The point is that some people in the Allied countries etc say it's alright to torture people from Dubai (among other places) in America and Europe but when the reverse happens it's not alright.

 

[billc]

Of course I won't be waterboarded, it is really, really unpleasant. That is why hardened mass murderering terrorists break and start spilling all of their information, including the information that led us to the man they probably would have died to protect, except I heard an interview that OBL and KSM did not really get along. The point is that it is really unpleasant, but at the same time not permanently or temporarily damaging to the mass murderering terrorist leader that it is used on.

Two medal of honor winnng former P.O.W.'s have supported waterboarding mass murdering terrorists, Bud Day and his fellow P.O.W. Leo thorsness, saying it is harsh treatment but not torture. they should know the difference don't you think. Look them up.

the unpleasant factor is also why it shouldn't be used against U.S. citizens unless they are captured during combat as unlawful enemy combatants. Criminals should not be waterboarded either.

However, unlawful combatant terrorists planning on killing, torturing or raping thousands, or tens of thousands or for that matter even one innocent person, should be waterboarded, if it is determined they may have high value information, like the location of Bin laden or the inner workings of al queda, that may save those lives. that I can live with and would do the waterboarding, with proper supervision, myself. Only one of us is willing to really try to stop the torture of innocent people. Letting terrorists detonate bombs kills and tortures. I want to stop it, using a form of interrogation that doesn't harm the terrorist, but gets the information.

 

[Twin Fist]

and THAT is why i dont go to dubai, or mexico for that matter....

 

[Tez3]

Of course I won't be waterboarded, it is really, really unpleasant. That is why hardened mass murderering terrorists break and start spilling all of their information, including the information that led us to the man they probably would have died to protect, except I heard an interview that OBL and KSM did not really get along. The point is that it is really unpleasant, but at the same time not permanently or temporarily damaging to the mass murderering terrorist leader that it is used on.

Two medal of honor winnng former P.O.W.'s have supported waterboarding mass murdering terrorists, Bud Day and his fellow P.O.W. Leo thorsness, saying it is harsh treatment but not torture. they should know the difference don't you think. Look them up.

the unpleasant factor is also why it shouldn't be used against U.S. citizens unless they are captured during combat as unlawful enemy combatants. Criminals should not be waterboarded either.

However, unlawful combatant terrorists planning on killing, torturing or raping thousands, or tens of thousands or for that matter even one innocent person, should be waterboarded, if it is determined they may have high value information, like the location of Bin laden or the inner workings of al queda, that may save those lives. that I can live with and would do the waterboarding, with proper supervision, myself. Only one of us is willing to really try to stop the torture of innocent people. Letting terrorists detonate bombs kills and tortures. I want to stop it, using a form of interrogation that doesn't harm the terrorist, but gets the information.[/quote]

Oh really, is that so? And what do you actually do for a living then? Are you an expert on terrorism then, have you spent your whole career fighting terrorism? Don't make me laugh! Go find some right wing little coven to sit with and cast spells on the 'lefties', it will do as much good as your protesting that waterboarding gives up the information we need.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I like Dubai. They have a cool ski resort.

 

[billc]

I have an Idea. Let's have the first Martialtalk.com convention. Instead of the regular Saturday night dance we will have a different event. If Tez agrees, we will both undergo interogation, since she thinks that I should be waterboarded to prove my point. This is how it would work. I will be waterboarded under the Christopher hitchens and Mancow muller technique where you release hand grips when you have had enough. Tez, who thinks that waterboarding is torture will be given information the interogators need to retrieve, and Tez will have front teeth pulled with a rusty pliers until she gives them the information. They will stop pulling teeth once she gives them the code word or short phrase that will represent the secrets. A minimum of one tooth will be pulled, just to be fair. To be fair to the demonstration, no pain killer or medical treatment will be given to either one of us until the sunday afternoon closing ceremonies. Also, immediately following the interogation, we would each have to eat a nice dinner, perhaps a 12 oz. steak, with a refreshing beverage. We could then exchange our notes on the experience with the audience. The one who cannot finnish their dinner is the loser of the debate. It would be great. We could all get together and have a good time talking martial arts, politics, and demonstrating that waterboarding, while harsh, is not anything like real torture. How about that Bob, would you host it?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

1st, we've already done 5 meets.
2nd, 2 words: Adonis Fist.

 

[Tez3]

I have an Idea. Let's have the first Martialtalk.com convention. Instead of the regular Saturday night dance we will have a different event. If Tez agrees, we will both undergo interogation, since she thinks that I should be waterboarded to prove my point. This is how it would work. I will be waterboarded under the Christopher hitchens and Mancow muller technique where you release hand grips when you have had enough. Tez, who thinks that waterboarding is torture will be given information the interogators need to retrieve, and Tez will have front teeth pulled with a rusty pliers until she gives them the information. They will stop pulling teeth once she gives them the code word or short phrase that will represent the secrets. A minimum of one tooth will be pulled, just to be fair. To be fair to the demonstration, no pain killer or medical treatment will be given to either one of us until the sunday afternoon closing ceremonies. Also, immediately following the interogation, we would each have to eat a nice dinner, perhaps a 12 oz. steak, with a refreshing beverage. We could then exchange our notes on the experience with the audience. The one who cannot finnish their dinner is the loser of the debate. It would be great. We could all get together and have a good time talking martial arts, politics, and demonstrating that waterboarding, while harsh, is not anything like real torture. How about that Bob, would you host it?

My mother was tortured by the Nazis, would you like a copy of her testimony?

Nice try though, I'm sure you can be much more offensive if you tried.

Btw one of my heroines, she was repeatedly tortured and told them nothing.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...SOE-spy-network-recognised-statue-London.html

 

[billc]

I don't know about that device, but you have to say Bob that my event would bring out a crowd.

 

[billc]

I guess my point that waterboarding is effective would be proven then. And we would enjoy a nice steak dinner.

 

[Tez3]

I guess my point that waterboarding is effective would be proven then. And we would enjoy a nice steak dinner.

WTF? You understand nothing do you? You are simply childish in your naivety about people aren't you and really, really quite offensive.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bill, we're saying it's torture, it's ineffective, and so on.
Experts agree. The law, agrees. International treaty, agrees.
But we'll differ to your obvious greater than US Law, Greater than experience and greater than treaty position.

Everyone should be waterboarded. Start with the grade school kids accused of stealing lunch money, all the way up to the most evil of types.
It's safe, it's effective, it's wonderful.
Because Bill and 1 hack writer say so, and that, outweighs 100 years of contradictory data.

As to your proposal.... I won't dignify it with a real reply other than to express my disdain.

 

[billc]

Experts actually do not agree. Even men who have been tortured, for years, do not agree. Members of the intelligence community do not agree. The law is not always right or correct and often times hurts the innocent as much as it protects the innocent.