Dojo arguments

Headhunter

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So I've been back in kenpo for about 4 months now after a long 20 year break and I've been loving it. But lately there's been tension there not between me and anyone but 2 other guys. The main guy who runs it has his group of black belts he bought up so it's the head instructor who's an 8th dan another guy who's a 6th and another 5th. Then there's everyone else.

But lately another guy who's a 2nd has started training with us and he knows the head instructor very very well for a long time but since that guy started they don't get along. They have different ways of doing things and the 2nd dan has different opinions how the club should be run and quite honestly it's making training uncomftoable and not a nice atmosphere as its turning into more of a pissing contest trying to show who knows more. Take the other week one of the head instructors guys was teaching a technique to a lower belt and the 2nd dan started disagreeing it wasn't a major thing at all and I did agree with him about it but the technique worked still but to me it seemed he was trying to undermine the instructor.

Then the 2 started arguing about the move not screaming and swearing but it was getting intense and arguing in front of the whole class. I was honestly completely embarrassed and I ended up saying lets talk about this after class can we move on. Then things were getting out of hand they were laying imto each other on techniques hard quite honestly I think they were trying to hurt each other and the 2nd dan was going hard on lower belts to who had nothing to do with anything and laying into them and disagreeing with how they were doing things. The guy tried to do it with me but I wasn't having that I'm in my 60s I can't be taking punches like that. I saw he was going to lay into my ribs with a punch so I blocked it and in kenpo when you're drilling you don't do that but I wasn't getting my ribs broken and he said to me hey you blocked and I was like yeah because I knew you were gonna go 100% I'm not getting my ribs smashed because of this drama.

I was pissed tbh maybe I should've just said nothing but quite honestly I'm tired of it. It's why I walked away from kenpo in the first place to many egos.

It's getting to much there's mumbling and back stabbing and all sorts if it doesn't get sorted ill walk away from the club and just do my own training like I've been doing for years. I hope it doesn't come to that because I enjoy doing it with a group but I can't be dealing with this garbage.
 

drop bear

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Just go train with guys who are less hassle.
 

WaterGal

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That's a problem. Have you spoken about it with the owner? He needs to deal with this dynamic ASAP or it could destroy the community of the school. (Or you could just leave and find another place.)
 

marques

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That '2nd Dan' doesn't know how to train. For my standard, he his no more than green belt just for what you said. Learning how to train is the first step in a dojo. Learning how to be in a group is one of the first steps in life...

- 'The instructor is always correct.' (Other than this is to be discussed in private.)
- Going hard purposely with lower grades is nonsense. (It is nonsense all the time it is not supposed to happen.)
 
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Headhunter

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That's a problem. Have you spoken about it with the owner? He needs to deal with this dynamic ASAP or it could destroy the community of the school. (Or you could just leave and find another place.)
In that incident the instructor wasn't there that night due to other work commitments. He is aware of it though and well there's not a lot of other kenpo places in my area to train. There's a Thai boxing place that I'd be interested in checking out one day if this ends up falling through but I'd prefer to stick it out with kenpo
 
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Headhunter

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That '2nd Dan' doesn't know how to train. For my standard, he his no more than green belt just for what you said. Learning how to train is the first step in a dojo. Learning how to be in a group is one of the first steps in life...

- 'The instructor is always correct.' (Other than this is to be discussed in private.)
- Going hard purposely with lower grades is nonsense. (It is nonsense all the time it is not supposed to happen.)
Agreed the guys not a guy I'd ever hang out with. I only met him a few weeks ago but I'd heard of his reputation through other friends as a bit of a hot head. He can be a decent guy to talk to but he can also be a total dick as well. He's good at what he does ill give him that he moves well but that's a small part of the equation and honestly in my eyes he'dbe terrible head instructor. If someone upsets him he responds by belittling and lashing out.

I get they've got there difference of opinion but that's no one else's problem they got issues sort it out themselves don't bring it to the floor. I don't care what they do if they talk it out, ignore or each other or throw hands with each other as long as it doesn't affect anyone else who's not involved.
 

Uchinanchu

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To be honest, IMHO, this should never have escalated to such a point in the first place and the blame lies solely in the head instructor's shoulders. The minute this second degree started acting like a horse's *** the Sensei should have put him in his place. You do NOT disrespect the teacher, your seniors or even the he lower ranks. Respect is due to EVERYONE within the dojo and should be one of the first fundamental lessons one learns.
The minute he started acting like that, he should have been given a warning. Continue to act like that and should be kicked out the door.


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Headhunter

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To be honest, IMHO, this should never have escalated to such a point in the first place and the blame lies solely in the head instructor's shoulders. The minute this second degree started acting like a horse's *** the Sensei should have put him in his place. You do NOT disrespect the teacher, your seniors or even the he lower ranks. Respect is due to EVERYONE within the dojo and should be one of the first fundamental lessons one learns.
The minute he started acting like that, he should have been given a warning. Continue to act like that and should be kicked out the door.


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As I said the head instructor wasn't there that night and I haven't been able to get to class since so I don't know if any things been said
 

yak sao

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When and if you decide to leave, I would make absolutely certain the head instructor knew why I was leaving.
 

Tony Dismukes

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I've been training martial arts for 35 years. I've seen a fair amount of politics and personality conflicts in that time. I don't think I've ever seen a situation like you describe with two instructors arguing in front of the class. Unless the head instructor cleans up the atmosphere pretty quickly I would find some place with less drama to train.
 

gpseymour

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I've been training martial arts for 35 years. I've seen a fair amount of politics and personality conflicts in that time. I don't think I've ever seen a situation like you describe with two instructors arguing in front of the class. Unless the head instructor cleans up the atmosphere pretty quickly I would find some place with less drama to train.
I've been training about the same amount of time. I've even trained in a dojo where one of the instructors didn't agree with most of the others (and was eventually dismissed). No such drama even there.
 

wingchun100

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So I've been back in kenpo for about 4 months now after a long 20 year break and I've been loving it. But lately there's been tension there not between me and anyone but 2 other guys. The main guy who runs it has his group of black belts he bought up so it's the head instructor who's an 8th dan another guy who's a 6th and another 5th. Then there's everyone else.

But lately another guy who's a 2nd has started training with us and he knows the head instructor very very well for a long time but since that guy started they don't get along. They have different ways of doing things and the 2nd dan has different opinions how the club should be run and quite honestly it's making training uncomftoable and not a nice atmosphere as its turning into more of a pissing contest trying to show who knows more. Take the other week one of the head instructors guys was teaching a technique to a lower belt and the 2nd dan started disagreeing it wasn't a major thing at all and I did agree with him about it but the technique worked still but to me it seemed he was trying to undermine the instructor.

Then the 2 started arguing about the move not screaming and swearing but it was getting intense and arguing in front of the whole class. I was honestly completely embarrassed and I ended up saying lets talk about this after class can we move on. Then things were getting out of hand they were laying imto each other on techniques hard quite honestly I think they were trying to hurt each other and the 2nd dan was going hard on lower belts to who had nothing to do with anything and laying into them and disagreeing with how they were doing things. The guy tried to do it with me but I wasn't having that I'm in my 60s I can't be taking punches like that. I saw he was going to lay into my ribs with a punch so I blocked it and in kenpo when you're drilling you don't do that but I wasn't getting my ribs broken and he said to me hey you blocked and I was like yeah because I knew you were gonna go 100% I'm not getting my ribs smashed because of this drama.

I was pissed tbh maybe I should've just said nothing but quite honestly I'm tired of it. It's why I walked away from kenpo in the first place to many egos.

It's getting to much there's mumbling and back stabbing and all sorts if it doesn't get sorted ill walk away from the club and just do my own training like I've been doing for years. I hope it doesn't come to that because I enjoy doing it with a group but I can't be dealing with this garbage.

Before the racism issue popped up, this was ANOTHER problem that happened at that Sunday Wing Chun gathering. The guy who eventually wound up saying the N word nearly got into a Chi Sao "fight" with the guy that I actually call Sifu, because they have different approaches. According to Sifu, the racist guy thinks anything he didn't learn directly from their Sigung is "made up."
 

gpseymour

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Before the racism issue popped up, this was ANOTHER problem that happened at that Sunday Wing Chun gathering. The guy who eventually wound up saying the N word nearly got into a Chi Sao "fight" with the guy that I actually call Sifu, because they have different approaches. According to Sifu, the racist guy thinks anything he didn't learn directly from their Sigung is "made up."
Sounds like a peach of a guy.
 
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Headhunter

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I've been training martial arts for 35 years. I've seen a fair amount of politics and personality conflicts in that time. I don't think I've ever seen a situation like you describe with two instructors arguing in front of the class. Unless the head instructor cleans up the atmosphere pretty quickly I would find some place with less drama to train.
It wasn't like a rude shouting match. On the surface if you didn't know they had bad blood I guess you could've just seen it as a discussion but most people there know what's up. I mean I've had times where I've disagreed with things people higher than me said not because I'm better than them not at all but because I trained in a different place for many years so of course I have different ideas but I'd never say anything if a higher belt tells me something ill listen take it on board and decide myself if I agree or not or at least discuss it after class in a respectful way. It's embarrassing and just rude to try and contradict an instructor right or wrong in front of a class.
 

WaterGal

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As I said the head instructor wasn't there that night and I haven't been able to get to class since so I don't know if any things been said

This can't have been the first time there was a problem between these guys.
 

Ironbear24

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So I've been back in kenpo for about 4 months now after a long 20 year break and I've been loving it. But lately there's been tension there not between me and anyone but 2 other guys. The main guy who runs it has his group of black belts he bought up so it's the head instructor who's an 8th dan another guy who's a 6th and another 5th. Then there's everyone else.

But lately another guy who's a 2nd has started training with us and he knows the head instructor very very well for a long time but since that guy started they don't get along. They have different ways of doing things and the 2nd dan has different opinions how the club should be run and quite honestly it's making training uncomftoable and not a nice atmosphere as its turning into more of a pissing contest trying to show who knows more. Take the other week one of the head instructors guys was teaching a technique to a lower belt and the 2nd dan started disagreeing it wasn't a major thing at all and I did agree with him about it but the technique worked still but to me it seemed he was trying to undermine the instructor.

Then the 2 started arguing about the move not screaming and swearing but it was getting intense and arguing in front of the whole class. I was honestly completely embarrassed and I ended up saying lets talk about this after class can we move on. Then things were getting out of hand they were laying imto each other on techniques hard quite honestly I think they were trying to hurt each other and the 2nd dan was going hard on lower belts to who had nothing to do with anything and laying into them and disagreeing with how they were doing things. The guy tried to do it with me but I wasn't having that I'm in my 60s I can't be taking punches like that. I saw he was going to lay into my ribs with a punch so I blocked it and in kenpo when you're drilling you don't do that but I wasn't getting my ribs broken and he said to me hey you blocked and I was like yeah because I knew you were gonna go 100% I'm not getting my ribs smashed because of this drama.

I was pissed tbh maybe I should've just said nothing but quite honestly I'm tired of it. It's why I walked away from kenpo in the first place to many egos.

It's getting to much there's mumbling and back stabbing and all sorts if it doesn't get sorted ill walk away from the club and just do my own training like I've been doing for years. I hope it doesn't come to that because I enjoy doing it with a group but I can't be dealing with this garbage.

Honestly I would leave. Not permanently but I would have made it clear that until they get their act together I won't be coming back. I can take the punch but I wouldn't be willing to, I won't be someone's punching bag for a stupid pissing contest.

Just because someone is a black belt and high ranking Dan doesn't mean they are a good teacher let along a responsible person. Ideally they are supposed to be but clearly these people aren't.
 

JP3

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Before the racism issue popped up, this was ANOTHER problem that happened at that Sunday Wing Chun gathering. The guy who eventually wound up saying the N word nearly got into a Chi Sao "fight" with the guy that I actually call Sifu, because they have different approaches. According to Sifu, the racist guy thinks anything he didn't learn directly from their Sigung is "made up."
... hmmm...

At some point, EVERYTHING in MA is "made up."
 

wingchun100

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... hmmm...

At some point, EVERYTHING in MA is "made up."

Right, but over time each style has developed a set of theories/principles it follows, and then they use techniques that follow those principles. If you show him how to apply a principle/technique in a way that he was not shown, then he thinks you are just making it up. In other words, if you do anything differently than HE would, it is "wrong."
 
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