Does Your Tae Kwon Do Have...

[dancingalone]

a set of guiding precepts that give a sense of what tactics and strategies a student of the system should use in physical altercations?

I'm not really looking for a general philosophical discussion of the Tenets or the Trigrams unless it pertains directly to combat usage.

If so, it would be most generous of you to list or describe them along with an identifier of what type of TKD you practice. Thank you.

 

[Manny]

a set of guiding precepts that give a sense of what tactics and strategies a student of the system should use in physical altercations?

Inside my dojang rarely sambonim talk about this, because: a) the people who do TKD are children teens and moms and b) we practice sport tkd mostly.

However, I have my own set of guidin precepts about tactics and strategies that can be used on altercation and when I can I teach briefly to my felow students and my two men students.

This is my own criteria:

1.-Be aware of yourself and your surrondings.
2.-Avoid bad places and bad company.
3.-Always behabe with respect (evein inside of a verbal altercation).
4.-Try to fix things in a calm way.
5.-Run if you can.
6.-A wallet with $50 even $100 or more does not represent nothing, a stab in the stomach costs much more than that, give the wallet and go apart.
7.-If you were forced and can't do the above fight!!! fight brutaly!!! merciless!!!

Tactics:
1.-Never kick high, always kick low... if the bad guy can't walk he can't fight.
2.-Poke the eye,chop the troat,break the nose.... if the baf guy can't breath he can't fight.
3.-Break a limb.

Manny

 

[Earl Weiss]

a set of guiding precepts that give a sense of what tactics and strategies a student of the system should use in physical altercations?

I'm not really looking for a general philosophical discussion of the Tenets or the Trigrams unless it pertains directly to combat usage.

If so, it would be most generous of you to list or describe them along with an identifier of what type of TKD you practice. Thank you.

If the Chang Hon system has such a thing I am not aware of it.

My thoughts which I share with the students are pretty much summed up here: Sorry for the long link. You may have to cut and paste
http://371078645507472465-a-1802744...D8L7au-T1tgDnrIpb9lyVO_NJ-QmNv&attredirects=0

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I have asked this question to a few seniors at our club over the years and the usual response I get is that if I have to defend myself do whatever will cause the most damage in as little moves/time as possible and get the hell out of there as soon as the bad guy is unable to catch me. For me personally I would take their knee out as swiftly and brutally as I can and then run for my life.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I have asked this question to a few seniors at our club over the years and the usual response I get is that if I have to defend myself do whatever will cause the most damage in as little moves/time as possible and get the hell out of there as soon as the bad guy is unable to catch me. For me personally I would take their knee out as swiftly and brutally as I can and then run for my life.

FWIW, IMNSHO I think the taking the knee out theory runs a close second to the striking the nose and driving the bone into the brain SD strategy.

Why? MMA allows leg kicks. How many MMA fights have you or anyone on this board seen?

How many MMA fights have you seen seen where the knee was "Taken out" with one or even more techniques to an extent which made the guy unable to move.

I think about the same # as all those boxing and MMA matches where the "Nose Bone" got shoved into the brain.

 

[jks9199]

The "nose bone into the brain" is a medical impossibility. Breaking the knee with a cleanly executed kick, intended to destroy it, is possible. Is it as easy as some would have you think? Nope. But there's a reason that the KNEE itself is a prohibited target in most sporting events. Again -- that's not to say that attacking it the way some people teach will work.

 

[Cirdan]

How many MMA fights have you or anyone on this board seen?

Zero. Does that handicap me in any way?

About knees they are prime targes because they are vulnerable to attack and the concequences of damage to them. Unfortunately I have to admit I once injured a sparring partner by kicking at her knee. The 4lb to break thing is obviously a myth (knees come in different sizes don`t they?) but they can certainly be messed up by a well placed strike.

 

[StudentCarl]

No, I'm not aware of any such guidelines in taekwondo, but I also haven't seen such a thing in other arts. It might be an interesting thread in the S-D section.

I have been taught:

Get out of the "kill zone"/red zone/get "off the X".

That means a combination moving, protecting what's vulnerable (usually head is first), and counterattacking to regain the initiative.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Our approach is a little less trees and a bit more forest as far as perspective goes. Don't limit yourself to specific techniques or striking areas. Each altercation will be different. But I like the 2nd post about the general criteria about the situations; be aware of your surroundings, etc.. .

General SD principles we stress:

1. Il Kyuk (one strike) is the driving principle in our association. Obviously you will not take everyone out with one strike, but that is the goal, which means always strike a vital point, and move as efficiently with as little strikes as it takes to walk away from the situation. How many students do you see in your dojangs using 10 + techs in a single one step self defense drill? INEFFICIENT!

2. Attack the attack, don't block and wait.. . ... . and then counter. By advancing as the assailant is striking you are putting them off balance and capitalizing on their openings as they strike.

3. If you are against a person with a blade? If you will survive by giving them your wallet, GIVE THEM YOUR WALLET. If you believe they intend to kill you, know you will get cut; CHOOSE where you get cut.

I suppose that efficiency and intent are the driving factors of what we stress in our dojangs. Knowing how you move, where that puts you in relation to your opponent. Knowing WHERE to strike to when the opening shows itself. Knowing HOW to strike when the opening shows itself.

One step self defense is where this all starts with our gups. We occasionally focus a class on SD from other advances than just a punch, i.e. grabs, charges, knives, kicks, etc. At BB we practice a more free style one step, where the opponent can throw any one attack, and you spontaniously react, and counter with control. Granted, none of these drills simulates the real thing, but it does work on those principles listed above and reinforces muscle memory patterns for your favorite counters.

 

[Manny]

Our approach is a little less trees and a bit more forest as far as perspective goes. Don't limit yourself to specific techniques or striking areas. Each altercation will be different. But I like the 2nd post about the general criteria about the situations; be aware of your surroundings, etc.. .

General SD principles we stress:

1. Il Kyuk (one strike) is the driving principle in our association. Obviously you will not take everyone out with one strike, but that is the goal, which means always strike a vital point, and move as efficiently with as little strikes as it takes to walk away from the situation. How many students do you see in your dojangs using 10 + techs in a single one step self defense drill? INEFFICIENT!

2. Attack the attack, don't block and wait.. . ... . and then counter. By advancing as the assailant is striking you are putting them off balance and capitalizing on their openings as they strike.

3. If you are against a person with a blade? If you will survive by giving them your wallet, GIVE THEM YOUR WALLET. If you believe they intend to kill you, know you will get cut; CHOOSE where you get cut.

I suppose that efficiency and intent are the driving factors of what we stress in our dojangs. Knowing how you move, where that puts you in relation to your opponent. Knowing WHERE to strike to when the opening shows itself. Knowing HOW to strike when the opening shows itself.

One step self defense is where this all starts with our gups. We occasionally focus a class on SD from other advances than just a punch, i.e. grabs, charges, knives, kicks, etc. At BB we practice a more free style one step, where the opponent can throw any one attack, and you spontaniously react, and counter with control. Granted, none of these drills simulates the real thing, but it does work on those principles listed above and reinforces muscle memory patterns for your favorite counters.

Benjamin I agree with you, when I use a block I tried to do it strong to inflect marm and then counter quckly, when I dodge I try to hit as hard as possible to take of the balance of my bad people or knock him out if posible, and yes if you get in a knife confrontation chances are you will be stabed the same is aplied to a gun (you can be shot), this is something I always discuss with my friends and students, disram a gun and then killing him is something that hapens in movies, in real life you could be stabed or slashed.

No any single one step,three step sparring or hosisul simulates the real thing, these drills gives just tools to learn how to use them.

The mind set is paramount, bitting,chocking,poking,stomping... all is valid in a real fight. Only the ones who choose to survive can sirvive.

Manny

 

[dancingalone]

My goal for my TKD curriculum is to create something like the ideas expressed in the Bubishi, frequently used as a source for reflective thought in Okinawan karate.

Some of the example lines in this old text say for example:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Adhere the exertion of force in a flexible manner so that you block or intercept the opponents blow by directing your force in a circular motion, causing his blow or strike to slide and miss the target.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Exert to strike in such a manner that the opponent feels like being swatted, pushed, sunk and bounced away. [/FONT]

 

[Gemini]

a set of guiding precepts that give a sense of what tactics and strategies a student of the system should use in physical altercations?

I've never heard of such a thing, but it seems to be it would be a direct conflict to the "empty mind" concept. You "should use" whatever technique is appropriate at any given moment.

 

[dancingalone]

I've never heard of such a thing, but it seems to be it would be a direct conflict to the "empty mind" concept. You "should use" whatever technique is appropriate at any given moment.

Is Zen an acknowledged part of of KKW TKD? Mushin is an artifact of Zen. Teaching some elements of Zen philosophy is commonplace in many styles of Japanese karate but it is hardly universal across the karate spectrum. Similarly, I do not believe it has reached widespread acceptance across tae kwon do.

On a side note, I would argue that attaining mushin requires lengthy training, doubtlessly innoculating oneself into a 'style' and thus a preset set of combat practices and preferences. To my way of thinking, it would be hard to think that we could spontaneously achieve the "right" technique without training for it.

 

[Gemini]

Is Zen an acknowledged part of of KKW TKD? Mushin is an artifact of Zen. Teaching some elements of Zen philosophy is commonplace in many styles of Japanese karate but it is hardly universal across the karate spectrum. Similarly, I do not believe it has reached widespread acceptance across tae kwon do.

Not saying your wrong, being a believer in and teaching mushin concept, I'm just trying to wrap my mind around this since it's new to me.

On a side note, I would argue that attaining mushin requires lengthy training, doubtlessly innoculating oneself into a 'style' and thus a preset set of combat practices and preferences. To my way of thinking, it would be hard to think that we could spontaneously achieve the "right" technique without training for it.

Mushin requires understanding. Length of time varies by individual and level of attainment. It isn't black and white, it's progressive. Regardless, in this instance "it" encompasses every possible scenario you could find yourself in. Seems overwhelming to think anyone could possiblly achieve it with any hope of success. I could be wrong.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

FWIW, IMNSHO I think the taking the knee out theory runs a close second to the striking the nose and driving the bone into the brain SD strategy.

Why? MMA allows leg kicks. How many MMA fights have you or anyone on this board seen?

How many MMA fights have you seen seen where the knee was "Taken out" with one or even more techniques to an extent which made the guy unable to move.

I think about the same # as all those boxing and MMA matches where the "Nose Bone" got shoved into the brain.

Im not talking about once the fight has started as it would then be a little bit more difficult to get their knee. I would stand there looking them in the eye with my hands up pleading with them not to hurt me and while their eyes are fixed on my hands and eyes a low kick to the top of their knee would not be seen or expected. The best part of a kick to the knee is that you can still keep some distance and even if you stuff it up they still wont walk right for a week or so. If landed even 80% correctly they would want to have medical insurance as total knee reconstructions are quite costly. I would try not to strike their face at that point as it leaves me open for them to grab my arms or block as it is a lot harder to disguiese than a swift kick to the top of the knee. At my first dan grading I had to spar this guy who was about 2 foot shorter than me but probably twice as wide, as the sparring started we both advanced on each other and kicked at the same time and he 'accidentally' kicked the top of my knee and instantly tried to hold the kick back when he realised what was going to happen. In the end he didnt kick my knee very hard at all but it bent my leg back and the pain was intense, by the 30 second mark I could barely stand up and within an hour it blew up like a balloon. I can only imagine the pain if he had given the kick everything he had. Knees are extremely vulnerable, but it does depend where you contact the knee.