Does your jkd allow sparring?

[Glycerine0160]

My JKD is very privatized. My teacher is a high ranking at the sheriff's department in central jersey. He does this as a side project, more for enjoyment purposes than a financial set up. They even play music ranging from the clash to black sabbath, just to give you an idea of how private feels and the price is great. We dont' spar though. Do most jkd schools do sparring or is it something generally not seen worth while?

 

[Empty Hands]

If you aren't sparring you aren't learning a Martial Art. Sorry.

 

[arnisador]

Yes, starting from very controlled semi-sparring (e.g., you can use your left hand only) to what's basically MMA with weapons and multiple opponents occasionally thrown in.

 

[Glycerine0160]

If you aren't sparring you aren't learning a Martial Art. Sorry.

Yeah I kind of feel that way. I try messing around with kids in work, last time it ended up with me accidentally hitting a kid in the face. lol what did he expect?

I would like to bring it up to my teacher (sefou?) but I don't want to insult him. I mean it's only 65 a month, and I can go up to five days a week (which I generally can't make them all cause of work) if I choose to. I had to sign for a year, but it also included 2 private lessons (still saving them) hmm..maybe i could spar using them?

the wording is important though if I do ask him. he's a really cool guy.

 

[GradualProgression]

I truly don't understand how one teaches JKD without sparring. Part of Bruce Lee's philosophy was that there was no way to learn broken rthym and how a fight actualy plays out without putting it into practice by sparring. He sparred at least 1 day a week himself.

I cannot fathom learning JKD especially with no sparring.

Bruce Lee preached sparring over Kata.

 

[Glycerine0160]

Question on how sparring works.

How effortful does it really happen? When you throw a punch, how hard do you hit?



I'm going to ask my instructor why we dont spar. I have a feeling it's a liability issue. If I sign a release form, wouldn't that be sufficient? (although, i've heard situations involving liability that contracts don't fully protect an individual.)

 

[arnisador]

How hard? It varies. Beginners start at low strength, but you can work your up to regular sparring.

 

[Glycerine0160]

My sifu had a seminar to attend but had one of the older more experienced guys take over.

When we were putting on our shoes, I asked him about why we don't spar there. He said he had asked sifu before, and surely thought I should tell him. With enough interest in sparring, we should be able to.

Another question, I asked another kid in there if he would be willing to want to spar as to get another vote in the matter. He said yeah and later on when class was over I was asking him on how sparring works. He used to box, and he said the only thing with sparring is he is afraid it will be more punches than anything else because intercepting fists isn't practical.

This really boils down to another subject we discussed why people in the UFC don't use jkd and intercepting fists. Him and this ju juitsu guy said it was cause it's not practical. Well, if it isn't practical in UFC, why would it be anymore practical in an enraged street fight?

Which obviously leads me to believe they arn't right. It's practical if you are good at intercepting fists, and the only way to get better is to spar.

Correct?

 

[mook jong man]

If you like the place and want to stay there maybe you could train with a friend at your house or their house. My friend and i were wing chun guys but we loved to put the head gear on and gloves on and spar semi contact also put in a mouthguard and leg pads on. make sure you train with somebody you can trust not to lose it and punch your head in. Just because you got head gear on doesnt mean you can punch as hard as you can, make sure the head gear has a face guard. Expect to get hit a lot because your peripheral vision is cut down , you wont stop many low kicks either for the same reason. You will lose sensitivity in your arms because of the boxing gloves so you wont be doing much fancy trapping, for us wing chun guys its hard to do centerline punching with big fat gloves on, make sure you both agree to a certain level of contact. Remember have control , if you hurt him he wont train with you again. When you get hit it teaches you not to go into shock when you really do get hit by some one. But above all enjoy your self, its great fun.

 

[Errant108]

I think you're attaching way too much to the concept of "intercepting fists". To the point where I don't even get what you're talking about. I've seen plenty of MMA bouts where fighters throw interceptions and follow up on it. It's a very valid tactic that truthfully, many systems outside of JKD use.

 

[Glycerine0160]

I'm talking about things like gunting, destruction moves, etc.


Mook, you say it's difficult in sparring to use these intercepting moves?
I'm not quite understand the whole matter then. If they are difficult in sparring, they will only be more difficult in a real life situation.

 

[Errant108]

Gunting & the like aren't "intercepting fists".

As for using them in sparring, MMA or otherwise, if your instructor doesn't have you sparring at tall, then you will never learn how to use any of the things you're learning in sparring. Like everyone else already said, sparring is essential to JKD.

 

[Shawn]

You do see "interceptions" in MMA contests - regardless of if the fighters train them. A few UFC's back one of the undercard fights ended with a cutting straight right "intercepting" and cutting through an incoming left. The gloves offer some protection against intercepting gunts, and the fighters themselves are generally highly conditioned and fairly resistant to pain. When a fighter stops an incoming punch with a kick to the leg or body that is the JKD theory (or fencing theory) of the stop hit in action.

 

[Nolerama]

I'm talking about things like gunting, destruction moves, etc.


Mook, you say it's difficult in sparring to use these intercepting moves?
I'm not quite understand the whole matter then. If they are difficult in sparring, they will only be more difficult in a real life situation.

I've applied gunting in an SD situation. Although I'd never bank on this 100%, but a lot of people throw sloppy "hay maker" punches, and gunting through that into an uppercut/push/more blocking/etc is certainly viable. It's happened to me a few times before, gunting is pretty effective in those situations.

Destructions, to me, should be reserved for an escalation in force. A responding officer or a jury will only see a dislocated joint, crushed base of the skull, etc and not see the situation in a completely favorable light for you. In other words, if there's ambulance ride-worthy injuries for the losing party, the winning party will still get tossed in the back of a patrol car regardless of who started the altercation. Destructions should be used very wisely.

Anyway, sparring is important. You get a sense of timing, realize when moments of opportunity arise, understand range, etc. You become a better fighter, instead of just being a better student.

Play with what works for you. You'll find that out once you start sparring, although I don't think applying destructions to a sparring partner would be useful.

 

[mook jong man]

I can only speak from a Wing Chun standpoint we feel the opponents intentions through our arms and when i have gloves on i feel like i am a bit blind. In a real situation you wont have the equipment on and you will be using the art as it was meant to be used with no padding. I'm sorry i dont know anything about gunting i did a little bit of training under Master Raymond Floro (kali illustrissimo) i asked him about it once he didnt seem to be a big fan of it.

 

[Skpotamus]

I've only dabbled in JKD, so take this anecdotal story for what it is.... One of my buddies was training at a BJJ school that also taught JKD. They didn't really allow any sparring, just drilling where they did allow contact, but always in a controlled form (only jabbing, only trapping, etc). After he had been taking it for a year we got to play around in my gym...

He was completely lost when he wasn't in a drill with clearly defined skill sets to be applied. My lateral movement and orthodox lead (left foot forward) had him confused, me changing ranges and mixing up my tactics with broken rythym had him completely frustrated. He wasn't able to deal with the improvization that comes into play with normal sparring. I was able to keep him outside of his comfort zone and simply dismantle him.

I was surprised because I had drilled with him before this and he had very sound skills, but he hadn't figured out how to apply them outside of drilling mode and how to apply them with someone not doing the same things. He said he felt like he was always a step behind... that he was trying to figure out what I was doing, then adapt to it while I had already moved onto something else.

I would ask your instructor about sparring, just be respectful and ask him if you could spar somewhat. Make it clear that you aren't trying to challenge anyone except yourself and that you aren't trying to hurt anyone.

As for contact levels, while going hard every once in a while is beneficial IMHO, I've always learned the most when going light with my partners (50-70%) power since I wasn't afraid of getting hurt, I could relax and try out new skillsets I wasn't as comfortable with instead of going back to my bread and butter techniques.

YMMV

 

[Nolerama]

As for contact levels, while going hard every once in a while is beneficial IMHO, I've always learned the most when going light with my partners (50-70%) power since I wasn't afraid of getting hurt, I could relax and try out new skillsets I wasn't as comfortable with instead of going back to my bread and butter techniques.

YMMV

Amen to that.

 

[Glycerine0160]

I've applied gunting in an SD situation. Although I'd never bank on this 100%, but a lot of people throw sloppy "hay maker" punches, and gunting through that into an uppercut/push/more blocking/etc is certainly viable. It's happened to me a few times before, gunting is pretty effective in those situations.

Destructions, to me, should be reserved for an escalation in force. A responding officer or a jury will only see a dislocated joint, crushed base of the skull, etc and not see the situation in a completely favorable light for you. In other words, if there's ambulance ride-worthy injuries for the losing party, the winning party will still get tossed in the back of a patrol car regardless of who started the altercation. Destructions should be used very wisely.

Anyway, sparring is important. You get a sense of timing, realize when moments of opportunity arise, understand range, etc. You become a better fighter, instead of just being a better student.

Play with what works for you. You'll find that out once you start sparring, although I don't think applying destructions to a sparring partner would be useful.

Really? I never thought destruction moves could end up so awing. I am pretty comfortable with the gunt, so I will use that. I found also while performing the gunt, I learned to throw in my right foot over his, step one in the hary mal silat. Check off the arm, use the other elbow to lift the arm and deliver an elbow. After really thinking about this movie, I realized the elbow is so effective cause it allows for a block if he comes with a quick jab with the unchecked hand.

anyway, I don't really see how this move alone would end up in anything broken, maybe a numb forearm and an elbow to the face.
Although, I'm curious and will put thought into the destruction moves I know/will learn and see how damaging they ultimately can be. Though, if you are right, I would avoid using the severe ones unless it was a multi person fight or plain fearing for my life.

I do like though that knowing martial arts allows me to feel a little more free. If I'm going for a run at night, I carry my knife with me incase. If I see a group of thuggish kids approaching in a slightly unsound distance, I don't feel as scared.

A. I'm in good shape to run
B. I'm more confident in myself, there I feel I could negotiate better.
C. I could defend myself much better.

 

[Nolerama]

Really? I never thought destruction moves could end up so awing. I am pretty comfortable with the gunt, so I will use that. I found also while performing the gunt, I learned to throw in my right foot over his, step one in the hary mal silat. Check off the arm, use the other elbow to lift the arm and deliver an elbow. After really thinking about this movie, I realized the elbow is so effective cause it allows for a block if he comes with a quick jab with the unchecked hand.

anyway, I don't really see how this move alone would end up in anything broken, maybe a numb forearm and an elbow to the face.
Although, I'm curious and will put thought into the destruction moves I know/will learn and see how damaging they ultimately can be. Though, if you are right, I would avoid using the severe ones unless it was a multi person fight or plain fearing for my life.

I do like though that knowing martial arts allows me to feel a little more free. If I'm going for a run at night, I carry my knife with me incase. If I see a group of thuggish kids approaching in a slightly unsound distance, I don't feel as scared.

A. I'm in good shape to run
B. I'm more confident in myself, there I feel I could negotiate better.
C. I could defend myself much better.

I don't think sparring would help out much in profiling thuggish kids and anticipating what they might or might not do.

I do think we have a difference in opinion in the overall objective for a "destruction" but I see where you're coming from.

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

Yes it does, goes on a % scale.