Does this make sense and what would you do?

[loki09789]

She's skrewed. She should take a moment and say something witty. That way, when the soldiers look back on how they killed her, there will be a good punchline.

Of course, she could use another sort of distraction. If she pulled her shirt up and flashed everyone, they would all be distracted because lets face it... most guys have a one track mind. :jedi1:

I remember watching a History Channel special about banks/robbery and such where they talked about a team of Swedish bank robbers that worked topless...no one could describe their faces for an ID.

Poor taste? I don't know, if you are going to limit tactical planning on propriety your definitely f****ed. Fiction 'tactical solutions' for stories do have to account for audience, but this hypothetical discussion about a fictious character is springing from it, not expected to predict the actual plot outcome correct?

Would it be any more 'blue' if the theoretical tactics of the bad guys was to wound her and use rape as an interrogation tool? It has/does/will happen in reality and fiction is inspired by that.

 

[Flamebearer]

In this situation convictions and personal honor would take away one or two of very many different options. Of course, as the situation progresses, the amount of options available either increases or decreases. Personally, if the options decreased to a point where only a few were available, I would still stand by my principles.

Would you rather die fighting and clean or die raped and submissive?
IMHO they would kill her no matter what happened, especially after seeing the mess she made of their buddies earlier.
-Flamebearer

 

[Baytor]

In this situation convictions and personal honor would take away one or two of very many different options. Of course, as the situation progresses, the amount of options available either increases or decreases. Personally, if the options decreased to a point where only a few were available, I would still stand by my principles.

Would you rather die fighting and clean or die raped and submissive?
IMHO they would kill her no matter what happened, especially after seeing the mess she made of their buddies earlier.
-Flamebearer

After a brief review of my post, I don't think I completed my line of thinking. I did not mean to imply in any way that she should submit. I was saying that she should use flashing as a distraction, and follow that with extreme violence in action to create chaos. With chaos comes opporitunity.
To quote the the comic that my avatar came from, "If you're going to die, die with dogs at your feet."

 

[someguy]

I perfer if your going to die then do it in a nice cofortable way when you get old. Thats just me though.
I'm just screwing around though. But what comic does your avatar come from?

 

[Rich Parsons]

If you screamed would that draw more attackers? and if it did would that be good or bad? More chaos, yes, but wouldn't it increase your chances of getting shot?

-Flamebearer

Flamebearer,

If you screamed in rage, then yes this might or might not bring more attackers. It might cause hesitation. Yet, if you scream in fear, most males will look to see what is chasing the female screaming in fear, and noe watch her. Giving her more time stab and hurt people.


:asian:

 

[Baytor]

I perfer if your going to die then do it in a nice cofortable way when you get old. Thats just me though.
I'm just screwing around though. But what comic does your avatar come from?

It's from The Hitman. It's a DC series that ended a couple of years ago. It was very cool. Action and comedy, but it was also a tragedy. The writer was not afraid to kill off the main characters friends. All of them. And the main character died in the last issue.

 

[loki09789]

In this situation convictions and personal honor would take away one or two of very many different options. Of course, as the situation progresses, the amount of options available either increases or decreases. Personally, if the options decreased to a point where only a few were available, I would still stand by my principles.

Would you rather die fighting and clean or die raped and submissive?
IMHO they would kill her no matter what happened, especially after seeing the mess she made of their buddies earlier.
-Flamebearer

In reality, I am sure that the Rangers in Somalia felt the same way until they were face with women holding infants standing with spread legs so that prone tribal fighters could use them as human shields while they fired on the Rangers. The tactical logic was that American rules of engagement is not to fire on non combatants. The situation did get dire and the Rangers did fire at/on the women as human shields in order to stay alive. In the immediate threat of the moment they made the best tactical/contextual choice they had.

Conversely, SF soldiers in observation/hidden positions in 'Scud Alley' that were calling in strikes on Scuds in Iraq during the first gulf war have reported Iraqi herders (old men/children) tripping over them and the SF guys either detained them and let them go or simply let them escape and called the mission bust and requested extract because they had the luxury of time to way the options and the opportunity to control the calculated risks in doing so...

Deciding to submit to rape with the hope that you will survive it or create/extend the opportunity for escape is still a tactical decision - though not an easy or pleasant one.

But, even in fiction or reality, which is more important - accomplishing the overall/greater good task or preserving your personal integrity/principles at the expense of the mission/goal/greater good?

Fiction likes to elevate the 'hero' as one who can do both (accomplish the task and preserve/recover that personal integrity). Reality is that people have suffered post traumatic stress as part of that reconsiliation process for making the tough decisions and killing someone or letting someone get killed.

Reality is harsher than fiction everytime. I would like to think that principle would win out too, but until you've been there it's all spitballing.

 

[Flamebearer]

Apologies for delay... out of country.. brought computer but dang the sockets are different.

Some very interesting points. There's also the case of Palestinian extremists taking advantage of these 'immediate threat' choices and putting their kids in the line of fire. After they get shot, they make sure it gets all over the news....

The choices that one person may make for him/herself certainly will differ when he has to make the same choice for a group of people, as I think we've all realized.

I can't help thinking about how the Somalian situation and wondering what would have happened if the women had the will to oppose the fighters (although it's understandable why they didn't). Yes, they probably still would have ended up dead, but they would have deprived the tribesmen of an advantage. One reason why I study MA is so I can not only make a choice not to be coerced/forced/raped, but act on it.

I do realize that when principles meet reality, it's usually the principles that get busted. Usually. But, IMHO, it's the exceptions of the people that stand by their principles that actually gets things of lasting value accomplished.

Ethics, ethics.... oh yes, life would be simpler without them:whip:
What do you think??

-Flamebearer

 

[Cryozombie]

Ethics, ethics.... oh yes, life would be simpler without them:whip:
What do you think??

-Flamebearer

I try and avoid them at all costs. They make me to ethical.

 

[Baytor]

I once heard a saying that went something like this: "Once your principles are gone, the rest is a piece of cake."

 

[loki09789]

I can't help thinking about how the Somalian situation and wondering what would have happened if the women had the will to oppose the fighters (although it's understandable why they didn't). Yes, they probably still would have ended up dead, but they would have deprived the tribesmen of an advantage. One reason why I study MA is so I can not only make a choice not to be coerced/forced/raped, but act on it.

I do realize that when principles meet reality, it's usually the principles that get busted. Usually. But, IMHO, it's the exceptions of the people that stand by their principles that actually gets things of lasting value accomplished.

Ethics, ethics.... oh yes, life would be simpler without them:whip:
What do you think??

-Flamebearer

According to the mood of the area in Somalia, the woman (for the most part) were willing accomplices in this human shield tactic. They were as dedicated to the idea of killing/kicking out the outsiders as the men, so resisting wasn't really on the concern list.

I agree that principles count for something, I hope I am not coming off too ''ends justify the means" here, but - in the case of the heroine you are describing - and real life as well there are calculated risks, there is heroic and there is stupid/foolhardy.

To 'die for your principles' at the expense of the 'mission' or the greater good, IMO is not heroic but wasteful. Calculated risks is the way to go IMO. I remember my DI's asking all the time "Do you want to die for your country?" and the immediate (early on in training) answer was a "Yes SIR!" but then they would say "NO, you want to make the other guy die for his country."
Principled people will IMO take into consideration what the best tactical choice is in the moment and larger picture and make it - regardless of what that means to their emotional/physical risks. 'Sacrificing' your principles to live and fight another day can be just as heroic IMO as 'Sacrificing' your body for your principles and leaving the fight to others - with fewer left to stand up because of your death.

A less dramatic scenario is in hockey. If you are the last line of defense between the puck carrier and the goalie, the general tactic is to stay on your feet (don't try to check the guy or dive to block the shot) and force the carrier to the outside angle so that they are forced to make a move to try and get around you or to take a bad angle shot. Now, if you know that you have support that can pick up the slack - have fun!

It is a way of taking a calculated risk instead of trying to take the guy out in that moment when individual failure could be a proportionately huge team loss.