Does anyone else feel silly doing a ki-ai while fighting?

[Shotgun Buddha]

This thought came up as a result of something said to me at training at the weekend, and I'm curious as to what other people's take on it is.
According to one of my sensei's, I don't ki-ai enough while sparring. To be honest, I never ki-ai while sparring. It just feels like wasted energy to me, and takes away from my focus. Instead I just exhale on my strikes like a boxer. It seems more efficient to me at least.
Others I talk to seem to feel that the Ki-ai is important however, and put a great deal of effort into practicing it, and using it when fighting.
I just really don't get that. For the most part, they've always seemed more like a show thing to me, and one thats never really actually impressed me too much.

By the way, Im only referring to their use during sparring/fighting there. During warm-up or drills Ive no problem doing a ki-ai, especially during an intense warm-up, and find them beneficial then.
However during a fight, I just find they detract too much from my focus.

So whats your opinion on them?

 

[Adept]

So whats your opinion on them?

Completely unnecessary. If shouting during a fight improved your performance, there is absolutely no doubt you'd see boxers and other professional fighters doing it.

People ki-aing during a fight are either mis-informed, believing it to improve their performance, or doing it for some other reason be it a habit, a desire to please their instructor, or something else.

 

[Brother John]

rediculous.

Kiai-ing while fighting....
I don't think so.

Your Brother
John

 

[MJS]

During kata or SD= yeah, I could see that.

During sparring= no, never done it.

Mike

 

[fJCtheone]

For me there has always been a time and place for a ki-ai, and during sparring was never one of those times. I am always aware of my breathing though, and make sure to exhale on strikes (like yourself). I've never been told that it was necessary to ki-ai during sparring either.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

The spirit shout when performed over in over in sparring makes sometimes for the sparring partners to be able to ignore it. (sometimes) However in a violent encounter it can startle and freeze people for a split second and that may be all that you will need to defend yourself.

I use it sparringly (when sparring) but it can and is definately effective if used at the right moment in time. There also is more to it than just shouting. I have used it in the past when making an arrest. (It was very effective

)

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

The spirit shout when performed over in over in sparring makes sometimes for the sparring partners to be able to ignore it. (sometimes) However in a violent encounter it can startle and freeze people for a split second and that may be all that you will need to defend yourself.

I use it sparringly (when sparring) but it can and is definately effective if used at the right moment in time. There also is more to it than just shouting. I have used it in the past when making an arrest. (It was very effective

)

While accept the use of it as a distraction in a self-defence scenario, Ive heard very few ki-ai that would get the job done, or at least not ones anyone would have time to pull off.
By far the most effective I've witnessed is a a friend of mine who insists on making pigeon noises while fighting. They're suprisingly unnerving.
*COO* Wait coo? *punch*

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

While accept the use of it as a distraction in a self-defence scenario, Ive heard very few ki-ai that would get the job done, or at least not ones anyone would have time to pull off.
By far the most effective I've witnessed is a a friend of mine who insists on making pigeon noises while fighting. They're suprisingly unnerving.
*COO* Wait coo? *punch*

Maybe you just have never encountered the right trained person yet. It is not all about just making a noise.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Maybe you just have never encountered the right trained person yet. It is not all about just making a noise.

Oh Ive met some very well trained people, and Ive found that if you've done any self-defence style "woofing" training, the ki-ai tends to not put you off too much. Instead what proofs effective are displacement techniques, where the opponent introduces something completely out of context like saying "I think blue silk is lovely" and mucking up your train of thought. Even that stops working after enough practice though.

 

[Bigshadow]

Instead I just exhale on my strikes like a boxer. It seems more efficient to me at least.

I believe that is part of the ki-ai. Additionally, not all ki-ai are audible. Certainly, audible ones can be used as a distraction. I believe it can also be a projection of will or spirit or a feeling of overwhelming force, that isn't necessarily heard, but felt.

I guess what I am saying is that I see the Ki-ai something far more complex than just an audible shout.

Most of the time I have heard Ki-ai in studios, it has always sounded hollow and empty.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I believe that is part of the ki-ai. Additionally, not all ki-ai are audible. Certainly, it can be used as a distraction. I believe it can also be a projection of will or spirit and that isn't necessarily heard, but felt.

I guess what I am saying is that I see the Ki-ai something far more complex than just an audible shout.

Most of the time I have heard Ki-ai in studios, it has always sounded hollow and empty.

Very true Dave. Exhaling is just another form of ki-ai.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Oh Ive met some very well trained people, and Ive found that if you've done any self-defence style "woofing" training, the ki-ai tends to not put you off too much. Instead what proofs effective are displacement techniques, where the opponent introduces something completely out of context like saying "I think blue silk is lovely" and mucking up your train of thought. Even that stops working after enough practice though.

Shotgun Buddha you may have not met anyone who is good at this. (not that they may not be fantastic practitioners) There is alot more to it than just woofing. There is the when to use it, how you use it, where it is directed, What result are you looking to get, etc. Not to mention what you do immediately after the result. To just Ki-ai without the above is just not very productive. Unfortunately few people do the above or know the above. (it just is not taught very much)

If exhaling is working for you then I would concentrate on that as it is very, very effective.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

I believe that is part of the ki-ai. Additionally, not all ki-ai are audible. Certainly, audible ones can be used as a distraction. I believe it can also be a projection of will or spirit or a feeling of overwhelming force, that isn't necessarily heard, but felt.

I guess what I am saying is that I see the Ki-ai something far more complex than just an audible shout.

Most of the time I have heard Ki-ai in studios, it has always sounded hollow and empty.

I exhale because breathing out on the strike allows me to strike more efficiently. My will is projected through my movement and my actions, any form of external projection only seems to detract from the focus of my actual strikes.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Shotgun Buddha you may have not met anyone who is good at this. (not that they may not be fantastic practitioners) There is alot more to it than just woofing. There is the when to use it, how you use it, where it is directed, What result are you looking to get, etc. Not to mention what you do immediately after the result. To just Ki-ai without the above is just not very productive. Unfortunately few people do the above or know the above. (it just is not taught very much)

If exhaling is working for you then I would concentrate on that as it is very, very effective.

Heh. Trust me, the people I trained with were actually quite effective at ki-ai's, they certainly seemed to be affecting other people there. Its just after doing the woofing training, external distraction seemed rather easy to block out.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Heh. Trust me, the people I trained with were actually quite effective at ki-ai's, they certainly seemed to be affecting other people there. Its just after doing the woofing training, external distraction seemed rather easy to block out.

No problem I am not disparaging the people you train with as I probably do not know them. (but would like to) There is alot more to a ki-ai than what most people ever get in there training. So it can be very effective if used in the right circumstances. Good luck and keep training.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

No problem I am not disparaging the people you train with as I probably do not know them. (but would like to) There is alot more to a ki-ai than what most people ever get in there training. So it can be very effective if used in the right circumstances. Good luck and keep training.

Im kind of curious to actually learn more about the ki-ai, and how its used properly anyway. Its just most of what Ive witnessed as either been blatant showmanship, or else something I can handle easily enough.
So if there is something more to it, I would like to learn about it.

What I don't see is why when the ki-ai in question is obviously something done for show, why its made a big deal of.
Proper ki-ai, fine. Silly ki-ai, why exactly am I doing this?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Im kind of curious to actually learn more about the ki-ai, and how its used properly anyway. Its just most of what Ive witnessed as either been blatant showmanship, or else something I can handle easily enough.
So if there is something more to it, I would like to learn about it.

What I don't see is why when the ki-ai in question is obviously something done for show, why its made a big deal of.
Proper ki-ai, fine. Silly ki-ai, why exactly am I doing this?

I have to agree that ki-ai-ing just to ki-ai is pretty silly! (wasted energy)

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

I have to agree that ki-ai-ing just to ki-ai is pretty silly! (wasted energy)

Its been cropping up alot recently in training in the Aiki-wa. My sensei can be a great teacher, but occasionally he tends towards the showy aspects of things to attract students, and while Im smart enough to keep my mouth shut, there's some aspects of what we practice that I disagree with.
Fortunately the MMA club Im in tend towards very sensible solid training.
Its one of the down sides of doing more than one style, you have to do an unhealthy amount of thinking for yourself.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Its been cropping up alot recently in training in the Aiki-wa. My sensei can be a great teacher, but occasionally he tends towards the showy aspects of things to attract students, and while Im smart enough to keep my mouth shut, there's some aspects of what we practice that I disagree with.
Fortunately the MMA club Im in tend towards very sensible solid training.
Its one of the down sides of doing more than one style, you have to do an unhealthy amount of thinking for yourself.

Nothing wrong with thinking for yourself.

 

[IcemanSK]

Completely unnecessary. If shouting during a fight improved your performance, there is absolutely no doubt you'd see boxers and other professional fighters doing it.

People ki-aing during a fight are either mis-informed, believing it to improve their performance, or doing it for some other reason be it a habit, a desire to please their instructor, or something else.

Is it neccessary? No.

Adept, you mentioned boxers. Troy Dorsey (former light weight ([maybe] IBF champ, & kickboxer) did kihap when boxing. It was a cross between exhaling & a kihap. Very interesting to watch!