Divorce rates highest in Red States

hardheadjarhead

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George Barna, an evangelical statistician, found more divorces among "born agains" than in other groups. What are they saving marriage for, and whom? Run that by me again.


http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/10177925.htm

More divorce in red states

Kentucky and Bible Belt among highest of all

By Pam Belluck



BOSTON - If blue states care less about moral values, why are divorce rates so low in the bluest of the blue states? It's a question that intrigues conservatives, as much as it emboldens liberals.

As researchers have noted, the areas of the country where divorce rates are highest are also often the areas where many conservative Christians live.

Kentucky, Mississippi and Arkansas, for example, voted overwhelmingly for constitutional amendments to ban same-sex marriage. But they had three of the highest divorce rates in 2003, according to figures from the Census Bureau and the National Center for Health Statistics.

The lowest divorce rates are largely in the blue states: the Northeast and the upper Midwest. And the state with the lowest divorce rate was Massachusetts, home to John Kerry, the Kennedys and same-sex marriage.

In 2003, the rate in Massachusetts was 5.7 divorces per 1,000 married people, compared with 10.8 in Kentucky, 11.1 in Mississippi and 12.7 in Arkansas.

"Some people are saying, 'The Bible Belt is so pro-marriage, but gee, they have the highest divorce rates in the country,'" said Barbara Dafoe Whitehead, co-director of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University. "And there's a lot of worry in the red states about the high rate of divorce."

The Barna Group, a California organization that studies evangelical Christian trends, has produced two studies about divorce that found that born-again Christians were just as likely to divorce as those who are not born-again Christians.

One of the reports, a survey of 7,043 people in 2001, said that: "Residents of the Northeast and West are commonly noted for their more liberal leanings in politics and lifestyle. However, the region of the nation in which divorce was least likely was the Northeast."
The other study, published two months ago, said that even though the Northeast probably had a higher rate of couples living together rather than marrying, the divorce rate would be essentially similar even if the cohabiting couples got hitched. And it said that "relatively few divorced Christians experienced their divorce before accepting Christ as their savior."

George Barna, the head of the organization, said that "a lot of really nice Christian people try to shoot down the research by saying 'Oh, they got divorced and then they became born again.' That's just not true."

What accounts for the nation's divorce dichotomy is the subject of much speculation.

Some people, like Bridget Maher, an analyst on marriage and family issues at the conservative Family Research Council, attribute it almost entirely to the religions in the different regions. "The Northeast and Midwest have high populations of Catholics and Lutherans and they have lower divorce rates than other Christians," she said.

Others, like Patrick F. Fagan, a research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, say it has nothing to do with differences between faiths.

"People who worship frequently, no matter what their faith, tend to divorce much, much, much less," said Fagan, making an argument that might suggest that Northeasterners are more devout than other people. "All this talk about this faith, that faith, born again, not born again, to me is irrelevant."

Many experts find the explanation to be more multidimensional, tying high divorce rates to factors like younger age of marriage, less education and lower socioeconomic status.

"The higher the educational level, higher the occupational level, higher the income, the less likely you are to divorce," said William V. D'Antonio, a sociologist at the Catholic University of America, noting that Massachusetts has the highest rate of high school and college completion. "Kids who drop out of high school and get married very quickly suffer from the strains of not being emotionally mature and not having the income to help weather the difficulties of marriage."

Whitehead, who lives in Amherst, Mass., said that New England is a region that has "more stability" than other regions. "People stay here, their families stay here, and there's more social and family support for people, a more communal versus individualistic culture in New England compared to the cowboy states."

She said religion may underscore those regional differences.

"In states with lots of evangelicals, the more individualistic Protestant religious faiths may actually also encourage more go-it-alone attitudes than communal ones," Whitehead said. And these are also states where the culture encourages sexual abstinence before marriage, she said.
 

Flatlander

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"In states with lots of evangelicals, the more individualistic Protestant religious faiths may actually also encourage more go-it-alone attitudes than communal ones,"
There's an interesting quote, perhaps not specific only to marriage issues.....
 

Cruentus

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That's because them gay marriages are ruining the sanctity of marriage...oh wait, gay marriages are not legal, and therefore couldn't by responsible for the high divorce rates. Huh...go figure...next scape goat please...

Paul
 

still learning

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Hello, This is an interesting piece. It is very sad for all the divorces and more sad if there is children involve? Thanks for sharing this. With open minds maybe one day solutions for divorces will be made, and marriages made better. Aloha
 

Feisty Mouse

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I think the communal vs. individualistic comparison is fascinating. Many towns in New England are small, centrally-organized places that were built a while ago - so are structured very differently than, say, the sprawl that is everywhere, but is so pervasive in the more "newly" settled areas of the country.

The first time I went out to the Southwest, I was *amazed* at how much sprawl there was, even in little towns.

I'd love to see someone compare the effects of religious background, family structure, and spatial structure of the local environment, to marriages staying together vs. divorce.

Hmmmm...!

Space makes a difference.
 
R

raedyn

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Born again Christians marry younger and are less likely to have tried living together before marriage because of their values. These factors are also known to increase the divorce rate. These religions also frown on divorce. Are they working against themselves?

Related article Why can't Christians stay married?

from religious tolerance.org

George Barna, president and founder of Barna Research Group, commented: "While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages."
Interesting....

Mike Huckabee, governor of Arkansas has declared a "marital emergency." His goal is to halve the divorce rate in his state by 2010, from 6.1/1000 to about 3. Frank Keating, governor of Oklahoma has initiated a campaign to reduce the divorce rate in his state by a third by 2009, from 6.0 to about 4.
Open question: Why is this an emergency? Why such a fear of divorce?
 

Cruentus

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Open question: Why is this an emergency? Why such a fear of divorce?

O.K....I'll bite. As a newly married man with parents and parent-in-laws who have all been divorced at least once, I think that divorce is a huge problem.

Why the fear? Because...divorce is bad.

Why's it bad? Because the assumption by most married couples (regardless of religious beliefs) is usually that they will be together forever. This is also the assumption of the State, because for all practical purposes, your material assets merge. So on many different levels, most of the time divorce can be very bad.

Bad #1; Material: When you assume that you'll be together with someone for life, your generally not prepared to split up your stuff if you find out years down the line that all of a sudden your not married. This leads to all sorts of domestic disputes and problems and all sorts of time in court over who gets what, and can get very messy.

Bad #2; Emotional: Emotionally it can be very difficult to find out years down the line that you can no longer stand to live with the person you thought you'd spend your life with, or vice versa. Often there is something more to it even then just that, like infidelity. This can lead to lots of fights and battles, again both in court as well as out of court. This is even messier then the material thing. I think that generally good people can be the meanest and most cruel to another human being to their partner in a broken relationship.

Often the psychological and emotional reprocussions from divorce take time and often many counciling sessions to reconcile, and certian aspects of these are irrepairable.

I realize the impact of the emotional factor since I have been recently married. I love my relationship and my wife so much that words cannot express how I feel; so on that side of things, I couldn't imagine being divorced years down the line. Yet, when the question of, "How's married life treating you" comes up, there is almost always one person around me who has been broken by divorce or is going through one, and is still not repaired from it, and I feel almost guilty and unsure how to respond. It's like if I rejoice too much I feel like I'm making them feel like crap.

The emotional reprocussions from divorce are probably the biggest problem with it, besides #3.

Bad #3 Children: It is very hard to raise children in a good environment when you are going through a divorce. For one, the dislike and hatred between the parents usually takes years of non-communication and problems to build before the divorce actually takes place; this means the children get to grow up in that environment. Then, when the split does occur, it is almost always very messy as to the fate of the children. They are often divied up and treated like the material stuff in #1. Often that hateful behavior comes up as well, and kids are used as pawns in the parents war against each other ("You love your mommy more then daddy, don't you little Timmy").

Great life-long psychological and emotional damage can happened to kids in divorce. It's not pretty.

Conclusion: Divorce is most often never good, just bad to different degrees. Sure, often when relationships get so bad it is for the better that they get divorced rather then stay together, however, that doesn't make it good .

SOOO... divorce is bad, but the question is, what the hell are politicians going to DO about it? Communities and schools may be able to have programs to educate people about how to communicate and making good relationship decicions, but that's as far as that goes. It's up to individual's to make the decision as to how serious they are going to take marriage, and even then there are no gauruntees.

Oh, wait...I know what they could do! Since one of the leading causes of divorce is financial problems, if the poor and middle class could have better jobs and a better living wage, then maybe more marriages would stay together? I'll bet they would...and I'll also bet that the likes of politicians from red states who say that they are going to "Fix Marriage" won't like that idea at all.... :rolleyes:

Paul
 
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hardheadjarhead

hardheadjarhead

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Tulisan said:
O.K....I'll bite. As a newly married man with parents and parent-in-laws who have all been divorced at least once, I think that divorce is a huge problem.

Why the fear? Because...divorce is bad.

<snip>

Oh, wait...I know what they could do! Since one of the leading causes of divorce is financial problems, if the poor and middle class could have better jobs and a better living wage, then maybe more marriages would stay together? I'll bet they would...and I'll also bet that the likes of politicians from red states who say that they are going to "Fix Marriage" won't like that idea at all.... :rolleyes:

Paul


Divorce IS bad. No denying it. On the other hand, the reverse can be worse, particularly when one of the parents is an addict or abusive. In that event a divorce might be necessary for the safety and well being of the children (and the victimized spouse).

The point made here is that Christian fundamentalism doesn't have the market cornered on healthy marriages. Just the opposite, according to Barna. Yet the Red states and the fundamentalists therein state with all firmness that Gay marriage will ruin the institution.

About the only thing that I see it doing is giving the divorce attorneys a five percent increase in income...provided Gays divorce as often as straights. If they didn't, that might be a tad embarrassing to the Red staters.

I heard The Daily Show's Lewis Black say that fundamentalists want to insure the rights of all...provided it doesn't seem "icky" to midwesterner's.

Hey, welcome to "Still learning." Kipa hou mai! I got my start in the martial arts in Hawaii...in shotokan...in 1973.


Regards,


Steve
 

Flatlander

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I would venture to say that for a politician to get involved in an issue, 95% of the time it is for a political end. Now, I made up that figure, but 87% of people agree with me.

I figure that Mr. Huckabee and Mr. Keating are privy to the disparity of numbers between divorce rates in the red vs. blue states, and so are completely aware of the picture this paints, and are desirous of fixing it. I don't think that there's a lot that they can do, however. Society's not going to change direction on such an issue in 4 years, and after that, what the Republicans have done there will be a moot point. 4 years from now, those will be blue states. :CTF:
 

Phoenix44

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Just out of curiosity: All of you folks posting your opinions on divorce, what is your marital status, and have you personally ever divorced?
 

Feisty Mouse

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I have been divorced. It *is* awful. What people forget, so often, is that while it is awful, staying together is usually *worse*.

Ex.:
...The marriage was too oppressive for him - he wanted more freedom, and found me too demanding - whereas I found that the person who had said they liked me for who I was really wanted an impersonal secretary - no future together, no affection, and most of all, not doing anything without his telling me how to do it. (Like doing the dishes.)

An example of a situation where, yes, divorce is sad, and I was very sad, but before the divorce, I was *miserable*, and so full of self-doubt, I was kind of disappearing.

Am I proud to be divorced? No. I felt like a failure for quite a while, when I realized what the situation was leading up to. And I think I held on for too long, anyways. I had to have other people tell me how bad it was, how much I had changed.

But I feel very fortunate, too. I am happier with myself now - even with my flaws. And I am really lucky - I am dating a great person who I feel like I can be myself with, and that is OK - flaws and all.

That's one example.

One of my friends from college grew up telling her parents to get divorced - it was so miserable for her, she stopped celebrating her birthday until almost the end of college, since holdiays were so competitive and awful between the parents while she was a child.

DIvorce with kids is awful, but again, staying together can be much worse.
 

Phoenix44

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I was divorced 5 years ago. The divorce process was horrible, and could have been a lot less so if laws were different. I have 2 kids, and they're doing just fine, thanks. They are both honor students, athletes, decent human beings, and have fine relationships. I have a new life partner. We will not marry, preferring to keep the government out of our lives as much as possible. IMO, post-divorce life is good, bad, or indifferent, depending on your circumstances and what you make of it. Therefore my opinion of divorce is neutral--just one of life's possibilities. A bad marriage, on the other hand, is always bad.

I saw a documentary on marriage and divorce which suggested that the bible belt has a higher divorce rate because people marry much younger than they do in the northern states.
 
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raedyn

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Me: engaged
My parents: each married three times
My grandparents: one set together forever, the other set he/twice married she/married three times.

So no, I've never experienced being a divorcee, but I've certainly experienced divorce! And although it's a difficult and painful process, once the process was over I think the parties involved were better off in all cases.

I don't buy into the 'divorce is always badbadbad' hype. My Mom & Dad had a relatively amicable breakup when I was 2. They stayed friendly and shared custody of me in a positive co-operative way. People would hear that my parents are divorced and would say "oh I'm so sorry to hear that" and I would think it was weird. Then Dad left my Step-Mom of 13 years when I was a teenager and that breakup was very acrimonious. They still hate to be in the same room together, 6 years later. That was much more difficult for me. So I have seen how divorce, if done right, can be okay. And I've seen how it can put children in the middle and stress their ability to function and be generally BAD.
 
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hardheadjarhead

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Never divorced. Married going on fourteen years (February).

Something to think about before proceeding down this path...it would be in error to think that a person who has been divorced has a more valid opinion than one who has never divorced or who has never been married. While the legalities of the process might be more easily understood by the veteran of four divorces, this doesn't qualify that person as an expert on the issue. They can make that claim no more than they can claim expertise on the issue of marriage...which they've failed four times. Personal experience is best taken with a grain of salt here.

I'm not saying anybody has suggested this, but it is something to consider. One can see the trap that a person could easily fall into with the line, "You've never been divorced, what do you know about it?" Raedyn, for example, knows quite a bit.


Regards,


Steve
 

Kane

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Me: Single
Parents: Been through the worst together (except violence to each other). My family had very strong willed to survive their marriage, and even now it isn't going too well. They have will however.

I think there is many factors that effect marriage. I don't think it has to do with religious beliefs though religion usually helps stop couples from being divorced (probably what kept my parents together all those years). I think it has a little more with the age of the parents in some cases. For example, if I decide to marry at my age, I am almost guaranteed to get divorced pretty quickly unless my parents were loaded with cash. Right now in my very early 20s, I don't have the maturity and the finances to support my family. It would be nearly impossible to have a family especially considering I have to work more being young or the fact I am still in collage. I recommend most people to not even think of marriage before 28, the older is usually the better. No younger than 25. I know someone in my old high school that got married after high school and it did not turn out to great. In the link it clearly said that some of those kids dropped high school and got married. WAY too young.

Sometimes even if you marry at a better age, it still isn't enough. My parents got married when they were in their early 30s, and they soon found out that they personalities go horrible together. Still, through all the trouble they managed to keep their marriage to this day. It also depends I guess on how much will each person has in their relationship. Usually religion will really help, I am quite astonished that red states have higher divorce rates.

Well I guess you also have to keep in mind there are less marriages in blue states as well, which can help with those numbers.
 

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