Death Penalty?
- Thread starter Corporal Hicks
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Corporal Hicks
Black Belt
An eye for an eye makes everyone blind... Ghandi!
Yeah, well it's probably why they realized that: "Hey! Do you think God was speaking metaphorically?? " :idunno: Like they had a bunch of blind people walking around, screaming at the top of their lungs going: "I'll get you! If I had another eye I'll get you!"Corporal Hicks said:
digitalronin
Green Belt
The problem is not that there are too many blacks on death row but rather not enough whites. It should be applied equally for the crimes of rape, murder, molestation, etc.Zepp said:
-Actually, if I remember the number correctly from college, the cost of housing one criminal in a facility, not sure if it was state or federal prison, is somewhere around $75,000 a year. Per inmate. And considering the prison population to be above 2 million, the highest in the world, (I think) that adds up to a lot of taxes. For cases involving capital punishment, perhaps they should set a time limit for appeals, say two years for a defense lawyer to present any arguement or evidence concerning his client. That would require, of course, a separate branch of the judicial system designed only to hear these types of cases. Would it be worth creating this type of court to help clear out death row? Would money be saved from keeping them alive in prison for years and years? Maybe. And if death row was cleaned out, at least until new cases arrived, this branch could hear other cases involving long term prison sentences. Just an idea, don't really know if its feasible.
-And the problems with the number of blacks and whites on death row...it goes back to the system, the lack of education, the level of poverty, and many other facets of life in general. Its all connected, to be certain. I'm horrified when an innocent is punished and the guilty let go. Unfortunately, I don't think the system, as it is now, is designed to accomodate the number of Americans moving through it.
A---)
-And the problems with the number of blacks and whites on death row...it goes back to the system, the lack of education, the level of poverty, and many other facets of life in general. Its all connected, to be certain. I'm horrified when an innocent is punished and the guilty let go. Unfortunately, I don't think the system, as it is now, is designed to accomodate the number of Americans moving through it.
A---)
michaeledward
Grandmaster
I think the number 75,000 / inmate / year is exceedingly high. On another thread on this board, I recently posted a link to this information, although I can't find it now.
As I recall;
the cost of Federal incarceration was perhaps, 29,000 / inmate / year
the cost of State incarceration averaged about 26,000 / inmate / year
Of course, these were averages which included minimum, medium, and high security inmates. I'm sure there is a cost differential there somewhere.
Of course, another way to 'clear out death row', as you put it, is to eliminate the death penalty.
As I recall;
the cost of Federal incarceration was perhaps, 29,000 / inmate / year
the cost of State incarceration averaged about 26,000 / inmate / year
Of course, these were averages which included minimum, medium, and high security inmates. I'm sure there is a cost differential there somewhere.
Of course, another way to 'clear out death row', as you put it, is to eliminate the death penalty.
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
The problem with the death penalty for serial murderers and others of that ilk is that not all of them can control their impulses.
I recently read a case study from some years ago where a fifteen year old was thrown from a horse and fractured his skull. He woke with partial paralysis (which I believe he recovered from) and went through an instant personality change, in addition to having seizures.
He became hypersexual, publicly masturbating, propositioning his sisters and mothers, and fondling them and strangers in public. His mood was fragile, and he would fly into a rage and hit people with little provocation. One day he strangled his mother and sexually assaulted her corpse.
This behavior was due to the injury received in the fall, which likely damaged his amygdala and hypothalamus.
Brain injury and violence oft go hand in hand. Traumatic brain injury (TBI) and violence have a strong correlation. Death row inmates show a higher proportion of TBI than other inmates. 12 out of 16 death row inmates in one study had TBI*.
What then? Do we kill them as a deterrent to those children who might fall of swing sets and horses?
Consider the case study of one Larry Robison, a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who was convicted of murder. Prior to killing five people (in one night) he was repeatedly refused treatment, "unless he does something violent," in spite of his parents tireless efforts to get him help at various hospitals and institutions.
While sitting on death row for sixteen years he saw a psychiatrist only twice--and that at the behest of his parents-- and received no treatment or medication for his condition. He deteriorated steadily.
During his trial his attorneys were not allowed to present evidence showing a brother, uncle, and grandfather had all been found to be paranoid schizophrenics. It ran in the family.
Larry Robison was executed on January 21, 2000.
So...is this a tragedy, or a morality play?
http://www.nmha.org/position/deathpenalty/adultscasestudy.cfm
Regards,
Steve
http://dpa.state.ky.us/library/advocate/may01/mental.html
*David Freedman & David Hemenway, "Precursors of Lethal Violence: A Death Row Sample," 50 Soc. Sci. & Med. 1757 (2000).
I recently read a case study from some years ago where a fifteen year old was thrown from a horse and fractured his skull. He woke with partial paralysis (which I believe he recovered from) and went through an instant personality change, in addition to having seizures.
He became hypersexual, publicly masturbating, propositioning his sisters and mothers, and fondling them and strangers in public. His mood was fragile, and he would fly into a rage and hit people with little provocation. One day he strangled his mother and sexually assaulted her corpse.
This behavior was due to the injury received in the fall, which likely damaged his amygdala and hypothalamus.
Brain injury and violence oft go hand in hand. Traumatic brain injury (TBI) and violence have a strong correlation. Death row inmates show a higher proportion of TBI than other inmates. 12 out of 16 death row inmates in one study had TBI*.
What then? Do we kill them as a deterrent to those children who might fall of swing sets and horses?
Consider the case study of one Larry Robison, a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who was convicted of murder. Prior to killing five people (in one night) he was repeatedly refused treatment, "unless he does something violent," in spite of his parents tireless efforts to get him help at various hospitals and institutions.
While sitting on death row for sixteen years he saw a psychiatrist only twice--and that at the behest of his parents-- and received no treatment or medication for his condition. He deteriorated steadily.
During his trial his attorneys were not allowed to present evidence showing a brother, uncle, and grandfather had all been found to be paranoid schizophrenics. It ran in the family.
Larry Robison was executed on January 21, 2000.
So...is this a tragedy, or a morality play?
http://www.nmha.org/position/deathpenalty/adultscasestudy.cfm
Regards,
Steve
http://dpa.state.ky.us/library/advocate/may01/mental.html
*David Freedman & David Hemenway, "Precursors of Lethal Violence: A Death Row Sample," 50 Soc. Sci. & Med. 1757 (2000).
-Eliminating the death penalty would lead to placing more inmates in the category of long term sentences...which, yeah, isn't different than sitting on death row for years. I think if capital punishment was used correctly, as in a deterrent that has some teeth, people would refrain from some criminal activity. But the processing of capital punishment cases would have to change, and that isn't likely to happen. Criminals simply do not fear the law in the way they should, if we had quick and harsh punishment, an effective system. Some are just way to willing to "do the time" because many know they'll get out sooner than later, due to overcrowding. Maybe when someone commits a crime, they should aim somewhere else, like their money. That may depend on the crime. Its like trying to do a big jigsaw puzzle, where even the pieces themselves are changing on you. In its current state, the death penalty is worthless.
A---)
A---)
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
Darksoul said:
The cost of incarcerating a prisoner for life is cheaper than killing him.
The appeal system in death penalty cases ends up costing the taxpayer a heck of a lot more. I'm directly cutting and pasting the following, with my own added underlining for emphasis:
Death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.
The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).
The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.
The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.
Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.
The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than the a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment (Duke University, May 1993). On a national basis, these figures translate to an extra cost of over $1 billion spent since 1976 on the death penalty. The study,"The Costs of Processing Murder Cases in North Carolina" is available on line at www-pps.aas.duke.edu/people/faculty/cook/comnc.pdf.
Total cost of Indiana's death penalty is 38% greater than the total cost of life without parole sentences--A study by Indiana's Criminal Law Study Commission found this to be true, assuming that 20% of death sentences are overturned and resentenced to life. (Indiana Criminal Law Study Commission, January 10, 2002)
The following is provided to counter the $75,000 per year incarceration cost provided by someone earlier:
The cost of one inmate in a traditional medium security facility is $27.98 per day, which is $851.71 per month. The average time an offender spends in a medium security facility is 20.5 months. $851.71 x 20.5 months = $17,460.
Death Row studies show that incarceration costs approximately $20,000 per year, per inmate. Condemned inmates average 9.9 years (down from 11.2 in 1996) awaiting execution. By the time someone is executed, taxpayers have shelled out about $2 million in legal fees for each death row inmateÂ’s defense.
Studies on the deterrent effect of the death penalty show it isn't effective.
These are two studies of many done on the issue:
Capital Punishment and Deterrence: Examining the Effect of Executions on Murder in Texas. Authors John Sorenson, Robert Wrinkle, Victoria Brewer, and James Marquart examined executions in Texas between 1984 and 1997. They speculated that if a deterrent effect were to exist, it would be found in Texas because of the high number of death sentences and executions within the state. Using patterns in executions across the study period and the relatively steady rate of murders in Texas, the authors found no evidence of a deterrent effect. The study concluded that the number of executions was unrelated to murder rates in general, and that the number of executions was unrelated to felony rates. (45 Crime and Delinquency 481-93 (1999)).
Deterrence, Brutalization, and the Death Penalty: Another Examination of OklahomaÕs Return to Capital Punishment. In this study, author William Bailey speculated that if executions had a deterrent effect in Oklahoma, it would be observable by comparing murder rates and rates of sub-types of murder, such as felony-murder, stranger robbery-related killings, stranger non-felony murder, and argument-related killings, before and after the resumption of executions. Bailey examined the period between 1989 and 1991 for total killings and sub-types of killing. After controlling for a number of variables, Bailey found that there was no evidence for a deterrent effect. He did, however, find that there was a significant increase in stranger killings and non-felony stranger killings after Oklahoma resumed executions after a 25-year moratorium. (36 Criminology 711-33 (1998)).
Sources:
http://crimemagazine.com/TRIVIA/deathrow.htm
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7
http://www.ncsc.dni.us/is/MEMOS/Archives/S95-1798.HTM
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167
Regards,
Steve
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
Killing them simply isn't a deterrent. Study after study shows this.
Homicides are committed by people who either act in the heat of passion or who kill with premeditation.
The former don't take into account penalties when emotions run so high. To illustrate, I provide a fanciful example of dubious contemplation on the part of a heating and cooling repairman who arrives home unexpectedly at his double wide trailer in Davenport, Iowa:
"Tanya is having torrid sex with another man...indeed, it appears to be my brother! I feel I could easily kill both in a rage of passion, but should err on the side of caution lest I face prosecution and harsh penalties on the part of the state. Knowing the law as I do from my widespread reading, I can anticipate the possible financial and legal consequences of rash action on my part. Thus fortified with this hasty assessment, I will forgo violence and instead buy a case of Pabst Blue Ribbons and a bottle of Jack Daniels and horribly intoxicate myself to the mournful tunes of my favorite C&W station. I shall take my dog 'Bo' with me for company during this morose debauch."
Get my point? Many who kill haven't the education or emotional capacity at such moments to pause and reflect on the consequences of their rage.
Those who premeditate their violence don't expect to get caught--ergo penalties of any nature are rarely taken into account by them.
If they have poor impulse control, that exacerbates the issue. If they're thrilled by the risk of getting caught, that too complicates things.
And if they don't care if they live or die, deterrence simply isn't going to happen. This, among all things, might be a key factor to consider.
James Gilligan, M.D., in his book "Violence," explores the nature of the violent criminal. He worked in the prison systems as a psychiatrist for years and reports that men who kill have deep and profound levels of shame. The shame isn't based upon the homicide...the shame drives them to the homicide. They acquire this self-loathing while growing up. These men allready feel dead to the world, and killing them merely formalizes the procedure. They often save the state the trouble by killing themselves. Gilligan gives some chilling case studies.
It's a good book and worth checking out.
Regards,
Steve
Homicides are committed by people who either act in the heat of passion or who kill with premeditation.
The former don't take into account penalties when emotions run so high. To illustrate, I provide a fanciful example of dubious contemplation on the part of a heating and cooling repairman who arrives home unexpectedly at his double wide trailer in Davenport, Iowa:
"Tanya is having torrid sex with another man...indeed, it appears to be my brother! I feel I could easily kill both in a rage of passion, but should err on the side of caution lest I face prosecution and harsh penalties on the part of the state. Knowing the law as I do from my widespread reading, I can anticipate the possible financial and legal consequences of rash action on my part. Thus fortified with this hasty assessment, I will forgo violence and instead buy a case of Pabst Blue Ribbons and a bottle of Jack Daniels and horribly intoxicate myself to the mournful tunes of my favorite C&W station. I shall take my dog 'Bo' with me for company during this morose debauch."
Get my point? Many who kill haven't the education or emotional capacity at such moments to pause and reflect on the consequences of their rage.
Those who premeditate their violence don't expect to get caught--ergo penalties of any nature are rarely taken into account by them.
If they have poor impulse control, that exacerbates the issue. If they're thrilled by the risk of getting caught, that too complicates things.
And if they don't care if they live or die, deterrence simply isn't going to happen. This, among all things, might be a key factor to consider.
James Gilligan, M.D., in his book "Violence," explores the nature of the violent criminal. He worked in the prison systems as a psychiatrist for years and reports that men who kill have deep and profound levels of shame. The shame isn't based upon the homicide...the shame drives them to the homicide. They acquire this self-loathing while growing up. These men allready feel dead to the world, and killing them merely formalizes the procedure. They often save the state the trouble by killing themselves. Gilligan gives some chilling case studies.
It's a good book and worth checking out.
Regards,
Steve
T
The Prof
Guest
It depends on what youÂ’re looking for in the death penalty. For sure it will not have an impact on crime. Statistics have proven that time and time again. The death penalty will do absolutely nothing to prevent anyone from murdering another.
From my own experience I can tell you what it will do. Twenty years ago my brotherÂ’s youngest son at age 14 years, was brutally stabbed to death by a 21 year old junkie who wanted his radio. Our lives were changed from that moment to this day.
The capture and sentencing of the killer (who is still in prison) brought quite a bit of relief to my brother and his family. But until the day my brother died he lived in miserable torment over the loss of his son.
From my own experience, I believe that the only thing that the death penalty can possibly do is bring a revengeful satisfaction to the family members of the murdered person. To his day, there has never been any from of sympathetic apologies from the murderer or his family. The only remarks that we remember are the ones he made at his capture, "yeah, I wasted the f*****g dude.
I believe that taking another life is not a solution. It will not bring back the murdered loved one, but if it brings even the slightest satisfaction to the surviving family members, it should be done.
Ecclesiastes 11:3 "A time to kill and a time to heal." Maybe killing the murderer would have helped heal my brotherÂ’s tortured heart, maybe not. But I do know that it would have made him feel that justice had been served.
The Prof
From my own experience I can tell you what it will do. Twenty years ago my brotherÂ’s youngest son at age 14 years, was brutally stabbed to death by a 21 year old junkie who wanted his radio. Our lives were changed from that moment to this day.
The capture and sentencing of the killer (who is still in prison) brought quite a bit of relief to my brother and his family. But until the day my brother died he lived in miserable torment over the loss of his son.
From my own experience, I believe that the only thing that the death penalty can possibly do is bring a revengeful satisfaction to the family members of the murdered person. To his day, there has never been any from of sympathetic apologies from the murderer or his family. The only remarks that we remember are the ones he made at his capture, "yeah, I wasted the f*****g dude.
I believe that taking another life is not a solution. It will not bring back the murdered loved one, but if it brings even the slightest satisfaction to the surviving family members, it should be done.
Ecclesiastes 11:3 "A time to kill and a time to heal." Maybe killing the murderer would have helped heal my brotherÂ’s tortured heart, maybe not. But I do know that it would have made him feel that justice had been served.
The Prof
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
The Prof said:
That, at least, is an honest assessment. I can respect it for that.
I'd ask you to read back a ways to one of my other posts and consider the case of the kid who killed and sexually violated his mother following a traumatic head injury. Prior to his accident he had no history of violence. Following the accident his behavior changed dramatically, and for the worse.
Consider too the case of the schizophrenic--who inspite of his parents best efforts to get him institutionalized--was denied medical attention because he wasn't violent. He ended up killing five people and was executed for murder.
What satisfaction can one glean from revenging themselves upon the disabled?
Regards,
Steve
-Mentally disabled criminals have long presented a challenge to law enforcement. I suppose some may see it as tragic, but something must be done with them. Otherwise, you have to pay for special care with these types of people for their needs are different from regular inmates. Maybe there is no choice but to do that. Yet I refuse to believe that we can't work towards solving the root causes of criminal activity, ie poverty, bad education, etc. I guess a person would have to be so hurt inside by the crime committed against them or significant other to gleam any satisfaction in seeing the disabled punished.
-Yet so many are also willing to do the time in prison. A roof overhead, clothing and food, for the most part, at no expense to the "customer" except for loss of time. For someone who has committed a crime that would normally warrant a death sentence, what alternatives are available, besides sitting in prison the rest of their lives? I do support the reforming of certain laws that give an offender 10-15 years for possessing a dime bag of crack. Maybe for the lesser crimes, we could do something besides throwing them in prison, make them pay back society some other way. That might free up room in the prisons for people who commit more serious offenses. Tough situation.
A---)
-Yet so many are also willing to do the time in prison. A roof overhead, clothing and food, for the most part, at no expense to the "customer" except for loss of time. For someone who has committed a crime that would normally warrant a death sentence, what alternatives are available, besides sitting in prison the rest of their lives? I do support the reforming of certain laws that give an offender 10-15 years for possessing a dime bag of crack. Maybe for the lesser crimes, we could do something besides throwing them in prison, make them pay back society some other way. That might free up room in the prisons for people who commit more serious offenses. Tough situation.
A---)
T
The Prof
Guest
Hi Steve,
I think that we all know that the death penalty is a hot issue. What's right and what's wrong depends upon whose view or situation it is. I can only speak for my family. Over the years I have held a range of mixed emotions. IÂ’m for it, IÂ’m against it, etc.
IÂ’m a married priest, a father of seven, a grandfather of four, and a very prayerful person. I am also a father of a deceased child. So many times in my imperfection I find myself in turmoil with my what I want and what I think God would want. I donÂ’t know pal, but maybe there were even the slightest hint of anything positive from the murderer I could feel better. Right or wrong, in the end we will all be held accountable for our actions.
Thank you so much for your sincere comments.
Blessings,
The Prof
I think that we all know that the death penalty is a hot issue. What's right and what's wrong depends upon whose view or situation it is. I can only speak for my family. Over the years I have held a range of mixed emotions. IÂ’m for it, IÂ’m against it, etc.
IÂ’m a married priest, a father of seven, a grandfather of four, and a very prayerful person. I am also a father of a deceased child. So many times in my imperfection I find myself in turmoil with my what I want and what I think God would want. I donÂ’t know pal, but maybe there were even the slightest hint of anything positive from the murderer I could feel better. Right or wrong, in the end we will all be held accountable for our actions.
Thank you so much for your sincere comments.
Blessings,
The Prof
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
Prof,
My belated condolences to your family. I mean that sincerely. I can't imagine what you've had to go through.
Cases such as yours are cut and dried. I'd ask you to consider that other cases may seem so, yet aren't...and innocent people die for crimes they did not commit.
Bill Kurtis has written a book outlining two cases where misconduct on the part of prosecutors and/or police and incompetent defense attorneys led to the death penalty for two men. Evidence was suppressed and testimony was denied that would have given clear and reasonable doubt as to their guilt.
The first person Kurtis writes about was sentenced after prosecutors suppressed reports from the FBI that countered testimony implicating the defendent. In a two day trial the defendent's attorney--who was paid $15-$20 an hour for his first capital case--failed to cross examine witnesses and offered an eight sentence closing argument. He was later disbarred for mismanaging another client's money.
In the second case, following the exoneration of the defendent on appeal another man tied with the case skipped town. The weight of evidence indicated he was the actual murderer of the defendent's wife and children...but this evidence and testimony was not allowed during the first trial. The suspect who skipped town--and who literally had blood on his hands the day of the murder--had not been found by the time of publication of Kurtis' book.
The Associated Press did a story of 110 men whose convictions were overturned due to DNA evidence that exonerated them. Of these 110, 24 were found guilty of rape and murder and six were found guilty of murder alone. None of them were guilty of the crimes with which they were charged.
The men reported that their convictions ruined their lives. One wonders how many men across the country lost their lives unjustly because of mistakes or misconduct in the legal system that convicted them.
One death row inmate served fourteen years in prison before being exonerated by DNA evidence. He had been charged with the rape, beating and murder of an eight year old girl. He was convicted on the testimony of three witnesses. One later recanted and claimed police pressured her into implicating the defendent.
He died of cancer in prison before he could be released.
Imagine, if possible, being falsely charged with such a heinous crime and being convicted of it. You know the witnesses are bearing false witness. You're then sentenced to a gaol for years while awaiting your execution. Perhaps you're raped forcibly or through coercion. You're abused verbally--perhaps physically--by guards and inmates who are disgusted by your supposed actions. And all this while you know you are innocent.
Some might call this cruel and unusual punishment.
One of the links below provides a list of 117 people who spent an average of 9 years on death row before being pardoned, acquitted (fourteen due to DNA evidence) or having charges dismissed.
As of last May, eighteen death row inmates have been exonerated in Illinois alone.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=17&did=428
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=17&did=293
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=110
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=1&did=1017
Regards,
Steve
My belated condolences to your family. I mean that sincerely. I can't imagine what you've had to go through.
Cases such as yours are cut and dried. I'd ask you to consider that other cases may seem so, yet aren't...and innocent people die for crimes they did not commit.
Bill Kurtis has written a book outlining two cases where misconduct on the part of prosecutors and/or police and incompetent defense attorneys led to the death penalty for two men. Evidence was suppressed and testimony was denied that would have given clear and reasonable doubt as to their guilt.
The first person Kurtis writes about was sentenced after prosecutors suppressed reports from the FBI that countered testimony implicating the defendent. In a two day trial the defendent's attorney--who was paid $15-$20 an hour for his first capital case--failed to cross examine witnesses and offered an eight sentence closing argument. He was later disbarred for mismanaging another client's money.
In the second case, following the exoneration of the defendent on appeal another man tied with the case skipped town. The weight of evidence indicated he was the actual murderer of the defendent's wife and children...but this evidence and testimony was not allowed during the first trial. The suspect who skipped town--and who literally had blood on his hands the day of the murder--had not been found by the time of publication of Kurtis' book.
The Associated Press did a story of 110 men whose convictions were overturned due to DNA evidence that exonerated them. Of these 110, 24 were found guilty of rape and murder and six were found guilty of murder alone. None of them were guilty of the crimes with which they were charged.
The men reported that their convictions ruined their lives. One wonders how many men across the country lost their lives unjustly because of mistakes or misconduct in the legal system that convicted them.
One death row inmate served fourteen years in prison before being exonerated by DNA evidence. He had been charged with the rape, beating and murder of an eight year old girl. He was convicted on the testimony of three witnesses. One later recanted and claimed police pressured her into implicating the defendent.
He died of cancer in prison before he could be released.
Imagine, if possible, being falsely charged with such a heinous crime and being convicted of it. You know the witnesses are bearing false witness. You're then sentenced to a gaol for years while awaiting your execution. Perhaps you're raped forcibly or through coercion. You're abused verbally--perhaps physically--by guards and inmates who are disgusted by your supposed actions. And all this while you know you are innocent.
Some might call this cruel and unusual punishment.
One of the links below provides a list of 117 people who spent an average of 9 years on death row before being pardoned, acquitted (fourteen due to DNA evidence) or having charges dismissed.
As of last May, eighteen death row inmates have been exonerated in Illinois alone.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=17&did=428
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=17&did=293
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=110
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=1&did=1017
Regards,
Steve
GAB
3rd Black Belt
Hi Prof.
What you have just said is one of the reasons I am still and always will be an Agnostic.
It eliminates one of the big stumbling blocks of life. The problem is you have to go on with life with the frontal lobe, since it has'nt been around as long as the rest of our makeup, it is harder to understand.
I am not being disrespectful, just typing my thoughts on this complex matter.
Regards, Gary
What you have just said is one of the reasons I am still and always will be an Agnostic.
It eliminates one of the big stumbling blocks of life. The problem is you have to go on with life with the frontal lobe, since it has'nt been around as long as the rest of our makeup, it is harder to understand.
I am not being disrespectful, just typing my thoughts on this complex matter.
Regards, Gary
The Prof said:
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