Hi Guy,
Yeah, sorry about that, I wasn't trying to infer any particular level of exposure or experience for yourself there, and agree, it can be quite an interesting area of discussion. I was really just trying to get a baseline of how familiar you were with the multiple lines of Asayama Ichiden Ryu, or the different approaches of different lines of Daito Ryu etc, so that the conversation could go from there.
In terms of the systems coming from the same place, you'll find, should you get into the Koryu side of things much, that typically geographically local systems will tend to have similar reiho and other considerations, as there will be a relative amount of cross-over, and culturally shared ideals and concepts, simply due to the fact that they are neighbours, really. It's interesting, but in a way, not much more unusual than members of a certain community (say, a particular State) all having similar slang, vernacular, and accents. To take the US, a New York accent is different to a Texan one, or a Californian one. Same in Australia, a Queenslander will pronounce some words differently to a Victorian, or a South Australian... and the accent can be different as well. This is obviously a generalisation, but it's the same type of idea.
Yeah, my organisation was the original Bujinkan schools in Australia (note: this was before there was any other Kan), however my exposure is from outside of the Bujinkan approach. Additionally, neither of those Ryu-ha are (formally) part of the Bujinkan syllabus' (with there being no connection to Daito Ryu in the Bujinkan, really). That said, I know some practitioners of different lines, and have had some very interesting discussions with them (primarily on Asayama Ichiden Ryu).
Honestly, I don't know of any real, hard evidence one way or the other. I know of certain claims, but I always take those with a grain of salt, as it's often a way to add to the reputation of the teacher/system in question, not necessarily one based in a lot of fact. It could have been some influence, certainly. But I don't think it was a particularly big one.
Ha, yeah. All arts use hands to grab or hit with, for instance...
Why were they singled out? Honestly, because Tanemura teaches a line of each, and can make a very informed comparison between the lines he has received. As a slight aside, though, it might be noted that the reiho found in the Genbukan line isn't necessarily the reiho of Asayama Ichiden Ryu according to other lines....
Iwaki is an interesting fellow, and the book's quite a good piece of work. I don't know that I'd necessarily be taking what he says there as gospel, though, as it really is more hearsay than documented fact. Additionally, the comments about Keishi Ryu taking Maegoshi is not a reference to the line/s that we're discussing here, so isn't actually that relevant.
To show what I'm talking about, here are a range of clips of different forms of Asayama Ichiden Ryu:
Asayama Ichiden Ryu Heiho. This line is sometimes considered the "mainline", and has no real unarmed portion. It is known for it's use of kama (a large, single or double sickle), the wearing of a particular form of hakama, and for their Iai... which is done paired, rather than solo, as seen here.
This is interesting... here we have a Bujinkan member (who don't teach Asayama Ichiden Ryu) teaching the Genbukan line of Asayama Ichiden Ryu Taijutsu. The Reiho seen is taken from Yagyu Shingan Ryu.
Nakashima Atsumi teaching a related line of Asayama Ichiden Ryu Taijutsu.
Another line of the Taijutsu, related to, but not the same as the Genbukan line. Not the Reiho, which is markedly different.
Another line of the Heiho. This line has approached a line of the Taijutsu to begin to reincorporate Jujutsu back into their teachings, and are showing a form here.
More Asayama Ichiden Ryu Heiho, showing their Kamajutsu.
Just because I like their Kamajutsu...
And, mainly for comparison's sake to the Genbukan form (or very similar, demonstrated by the Bujinkan member), here is Iwaki himself demonstrating the Jodan no Kurai (the first formal level of the Ryu).
As you can see, there are huge differences in the various lines of Asayama Ichiden Ryu, some being fairly similar to the line that Tanemura holds, others being almost unrecognizable when put next to it.
