Cult Ties to Kenpo

[loki09789]

You have to think about what is written in these post and in the articles that the post reference.


So, let me ask you - if Al Tracy is so open to curriculum only, will he accept American Kenpo Black belt to transfer to equal rank? The answer - no. Why, because of ideology - because he wants you to think the way he does. Do American Kenpo Systems allow for rank transfer from Tracy's to their schools, or even within their own sects? No - for the same reasons. Bottom line - money and power. This is a great weakness in the kenpo systems.



This is OK with you? If the system and organization is not honest, or if it has ulterior motives and agendas, then this is a big deal, and these organizations should be avoided.

I am fortunate to have found a few good instructors who teach independently of the founding organizations and associations. I am sure that there are some very good instructors out there. But from reading many of the posts of this and other discussion boards, the ideologies of the practitioner's association permeates their objective reasoning. It is very apparent in some of the responses to this thread, and in many threads where the Tracy vs. Parker arguments surface.

Bottom line - you should 1.) carefully, objectively view your association's ideologies, especially when it appear to be the only' authentic' kenpo system.
2.) don't be a victim of mind control. If you don't know a rumor or piece of history to be true, don't repeat it. Just because the head dude runs his flap off against his competitor, don't add to it. Let him fight his own business wars.
3.) Don't create false rumors - you know - lie.
4.) Think, before you respond. Some of the posts to this and other threads are already answered within the same thread.

At the beginning of this post you say that the point is to read that I have to think about it....but at the end you are pretty much telling me what to think about it.

I am asking you directly what was the point if the thread starter and I am getting double talk.

On the point of curriculum and cross recognition... I have to agree with the practice of not just accepting at face value a different organizations BB as my BB. Would I recongnize and respect said BB for interaction? Yes. Would I just welcome in a different ranking structures BB and not make sure that the skills, drills and materials match? NO.

If someone decides they want to be a BB in someone elses organization, they are going to fall under a different curriculum. It may be close, but it is still different. I did this when I went from ATA to Jhoon Rhee TKD years back. I was 'ranked' at a (don't honestly remember - it was really low though, like Yellow or the next one up) because that was the lowest level rank that I hasd the representative skill/ability to match JR TKD curriculum. Only way to make sure that you are maintaining standards and quality.

Obviously, the 'so what' was to emphasize that this cult issue has been thrown out there with no context and I am asking for one to be presented. Discussions, for success, should have a framework.

THis looks like veiled slamming guised as 'make your own opinion known.'

 

[JKDooer]

At the beginning of this post you say that the point is to read that I have to think about it....
I am asking you directly what was the point if the thread starter and I am getting double talk.

Loki,

Perhaps the posts to this thread are too wordy and the point is getting lost. I will try summarize it in smaller sentences.

• The title of this thread is "Cult Ties to Kenpo".
• It addresses the current fascination of the Will Tracy articles.
• It gives factual links verifying that some of the founders of modern kenpo were involved in cultic activity for personal gain.
• It asks the readers to go back and re-read the Tracy articles with this information, objectively.
• It gives suggestions to the reader how to enjoy the wonderful art of kenpo, for arts sake. Not the personal gain of others.

I can't say it much simpler that this.

Loki - martial arts are fun and enjoyable, but some individuals send the students down dead-end detours. I hope your journey is as rewarding and enlightening as mine has been. As I have said before, I know of some individuals in different kenpo camps that share and teach their without all of this 'slamming' and style bashing. Such negative actions are indicative of a subjective adherance to perference - aka the result of social engineering.

 

[The Kai]

I don't think there aree a lot of factual ties in the article, perhaps opinion ties and circumstntional evidence.

Todd

 

[JKDooer]

I don't think there aree a lot of factual ties in the article, perhaps opinion ties and circumstntional evidence.

Todd

These are the factual informative links that I speak of:

All of this talk of the Will tracy articles made me do some digging. There appears to be a cult tie in with their organization.

Will still runs his sex cult http://www.goddess.org

Here are some articles of when they had to face charges in court.
http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/eldar/cmhgrvw.tn

http://www.godulike.co.uk/faiths.ph...4&subject=intro

and

http://www.watchman.org/cults/sexgodss.htm

His Rise of AK - part 3 mentions a collegue of his in the formitive years, Paul Twitchell. Twitchell started a religion cult of his own Eckankar -
http://www.eckankar.org/

As for validity of the Will Tracy information, there is only appears to be enough truth to be self serving.

 

[loki09789]

Loki,

Perhaps the posts to this thread are too wordy and the point is getting lost. I will try summarize it in smaller sentences.

• The title of this thread is "Cult Ties to Kenpo".
• It addresses the current fascination of the Will Tracy articles.
• It gives factual links verifying that some of the founders of modern kenpo were involved in cultic activity for personal gain.
• It asks the readers to go back and re-read the Tracy articles with this information, objectively.
• It gives suggestions to the reader how to enjoy the wonderful art of kenpo, for arts sake. Not the personal gain of others.

I can't say it much simpler that this.

Loki - martial arts are fun and enjoyable, but some individuals send the students down dead-end detours. I hope your journey is as rewarding and enlightening as mine has been. As I have said before, I know of some individuals in different kenpo camps that share and teach their without all of this 'slamming' and style bashing. Such negative actions are indicative of a subjective adherance to perference - aka the result of social engineering.

Wooh, social engineering. The information you site may exist in fact, but may not be FACTUAL. Someone wrote it, okay.

The fact that you organized, compiled and selected these pieces and omitted (or didn't even find) other selections leaves me to wonder what YOUR intent was in sharing the information... social engineering of your own?

Come on, on. Talking is talking, babbling is babbling. "Small sentences" aside, what was your purpose for sharing it? What is your take on this stuff?

And, btw, no written text 'suggests' to anyone anything. It sits there after the author puts it down and the reader takes it in, interprets it and evaluates the value of the content... otherwise your hearing voices.

I think I am done with this one. Couch it in 'big words' all day, but there was an intent of somekind and it is not being owned up to or clarified well. I don't feel like wasting my time.

 

[JKDooer]

Wooh, social engineering. The information you site may exist in fact, but may not be FACTUAL. Someone wrote it, okay.

All of the links that I provide are of factual basis. Here is another one that is interesting:
http://www.subgenius.com/subg-digest/v0/0082.html

Come on, on. Talking is talking, babbling is babbling. "Small sentences" aside, what was your purpose for sharing it? What is your take on this stuff?

My take is simple. Since there is so much interest in the Will Tracy articles, readers and practioners should know the rest of the story about him, and how he applied his 'organizational skills', while the systems were being developed, to the kenpo systems that we have today. If your school or system is unaffected - great. But there are others who also feel that there is more to kenpo than just martial arts, and this disturbs them. Therefore, I have provided information for them from which to form a decision. If they find their system to have additional agenda, they can leave it or remain. As for me, I always seek honest, open minded practitioners who wish to train hard, for the sole purpose of increasing fighting skills; not placement and rank within a 'community', 'sect', or 'society' of like minded individuals, when those individuals are not using their own minds.

And, btw, no written text 'suggests' to anyone anything. It sits there after the author puts it down and the reader takes it in, interprets it and evaluates the value of the content... otherwise your hearing voices.

This is a non sequitur. What text is not written? How can you hear voices from written material?