Control of the fight

[Hand Sword]

From my exposure from the two kenpo/kempo lines it seems that the EPAK line focusses on a constant checking approach. This is fine as long as you stay in what is referred to as striking range. However, since most encounters happen qickly, maybe a strike or two, then into some sort of grappling situation, isn't it better to focus on the felling side where you explode through after the strike/check range and control the opponent with a grappling/ felling maneuver?
Why would EPAK basically strip away most of the close quarter control in favor of control of the opponent from a "kick boxing" range. I feel that if you don't take the opponent down as quick as possible, they'll definitely take you down.

Maybe I'm off on this, or the EPAK isn't being taught to me correctly, but considereing the founder (Whom I GREATLY ADMIRE) came up as a serious street fighter, why tend the training of the self defense aspect toward what usually doesn't go in a self defense situation.

No dis-respect intended, I respect all of our kenpo/kempo family. If EPAK students have it differently, again, I apologize. Just a curios observation I made, appreciate honest responses. RESPECT TO ALL!

 

[Kenpodoc]

Fights do not necessarily go to ground. Mr. Parker was clearly able to control the fight and stay standing to deal with other potential opponents. The first generation student with whom I've had the most experience is Mr. Planas. Once he engages me I find that I am responding to his movements. I'm disoriented and unable to redirect the fight. Most Kenpo is not in Kickboxing range but closer. Why go to ground if you don't have to?

Jeff :asian:

 

[loki09789]

From my exposure from the two kenpo/kempo lines it seems that the EPAK line focusses on a constant checking approach. This is fine as long as you stay in what is referred to as striking range. However, since most encounters happen qickly, maybe a strike or two, then into some sort of grappling situation, isn't it better to focus on the felling side where you explode through after the strike/check range and control the opponent with a grappling/ felling maneuver?
Why would EPAK basically strip away most of the close quarter control in favor of control of the opponent from a "kick boxing" range. I feel that if you don't take the opponent down as quick as possible, they'll definitely take you down.

Maybe I'm off on this, or the EPAK isn't being taught to me correctly, but considereing the founder (Whom I GREATLY ADMIRE) came up as a serious street fighter, why tend the training of the self defense aspect toward what usually doesn't go in a self defense situation.

No dis-respect intended, I respect all of our kenpo/kempo family. If EPAK students have it differently, again, I apologize. Just a curios observation I made, appreciate honest responses. RESPECT TO ALL!

Not an EPAK student but I also don't think that EVERY fight goes to the ground or that ALWAYS training to take someone down is the best way to go. That said, I also don't think that NEVER training to take someone down is the way to go either.

The problem with training to always finish with a take down is that you are going to run into someone/some situation where the takedown is going to delay your escape, bind you up, not the most effective application because of terrain or body size differences.... and so on.

Have take downs/grappling in your tool box but train to be tactically minded so that you can choose quickly the best tools/response in the given situation instead of an always/never mentallity.

 

[GAB]

Hi Handsword,

I am going to go out on a limb again, when you say founder being a street fighter, Chow was a street fighter, Motobu was a street fighter, Emperado was a street fighter. Bruce Juchnik was a street fighter...I don't think Ed Parker was considered that.

Swordhand said....Maybe I'm off on this, or the EPAK isn't being taught to me correctly, but considereing the founder (Whom I GREATLY ADMIRE) came up as a serious street fighter, why tend the training of the self defense aspect toward what usually doesn't go in a self defense situation.

No dis-respect intended, I respect all of our kenpo/kempo family. If EPAK students have it differently, again, I apologize. Just a curios observation I made, appreciate honest responses. RESPECT TO ALL!.....

To Control the fight in a steet fight is quite a bit different then in a Dojo, no matter what some people think regarding this.

Yes, quite a few of the fights go to the ground, one on one, it is fine. But if your opponent has friends and you go to the ground, you are going to be hurting...%-}

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

Actually I always heard Parker was a street fighter, plus he came up in a era when challenges, and aggressive questions were quite common

Todd

 

[BallistikMike]

That checking hand can always be extended into a strike/block/grab/pull/push what ever motion is needed for the situation.

Because you dont see the base techniques or extensions using throws or locks does not mean they are not there. Many, of the foot manuevers coupled with a check that is extended with a grab/push or pull does result in dropping your opponent to the ground.

You also have to look at the individual teacher of the system. Is it possible that Mr. Parker never had to use the standard felling arts that others taught him (jujitsu) during his early kenpo training? Was he the type of person that saw no need for it because he was capable of defeating the felling/pummeling range before it was a concern? I have no idea, but things have been left out of systems because of the ability of the instructor not needing the "techniques" and cutting them away or in vice verse adding techniques that lacked.

Most fights do end up on the ground HOWEVER that doesnt mean that both combatants do...

The best take down I know is a knockout blow

 

[Brian Jones]

Not just Mr. Parker. If you look at the people Mr. parker trained, many of them tried out their skills on the street on a fairly regular basis. But I ownder if that should matter? Are we saying ONLY those who are street fighters have the right ideas and principles? Isn't avoiding a street fight suppssed to be our goal?
BUt back to the original question, Kenpo deals with all ranges, (although we are more ocmfortable in some than others) and if you look at the techniques, forms (form 5 in particular), extensions, principles etc. It does deal adequatley with taking someone down, and controlling them.


Brian Jones

 

[Michael Billings]

From what I understand, Mr. Parker was well versed in Ju-Jitsu. Sigung Steven LaBounty, one of his very senior students was (and still is) very proficient with Judo & Ju-Jitsu, and spoke of it this weekend. Mr. Parker still had it, he just moved to multiple opponents.

I have a old Wally Jay tape (filmed on 8 mm circa pre-1960), which was definitly rough and tumble ju-jitsu with the focus being on throwing, finishing fast and getting up even faster for other opponents. This was the Ju-Jitsu Mr. Parker grew up with in Hawaii.

-Michael

 

[Rick Wade]

Hi Handsword,

I am going to go out on a limb again, when you say founder being a street fighter, Chow was a street fighter, Motobu was a street fighter, Emperado was a street fighter. Bruce Juchnik was a street fighter...I don't think Ed Parker was considered that.

Swordhand said....Maybe I'm off on this, or the EPAK isn't being taught to me correctly, but considereing the founder (Whom I GREATLY ADMIRE) came up as a serious street fighter, why tend the training of the self defense aspect toward what usually doesn't go in a self defense situation.

No dis-respect intended, I respect all of our kenpo/kempo family. If EPAK students have it differently, again, I apologize. Just a curios observation I made, appreciate honest responses. RESPECT TO ALL!.....

To Control the fight in a steet fight is quite a bit different then in a Dojo, no matter what some people think regarding this.

Yes, quite a few of the fights go to the ground, one on one, it is fine. But if your opponent has friends and you go to the ground, you are going to be hurting...%-}

Regards, Gary

I live in Hawaii and I wouldn't go to some of the parts of Kalihi after dark were Mr. Parker grew up. Mostly because I am white but also because I am not stupid. I love Kenpo but no reason to test it to that extreem.

V/R
Rick

 

[Seig]

Remember, also, that kenpo teaches us to deal within specific ranges as well. Out of Range, In Range, Contact Penetration, and Contact Manipulation.