Closure Needed.

[chinto01]

My friends I write this in the hopes in getting through to all of us myself included. I believe it is time that we close the book on Mr.Bruce Calkins. As I have stated in past posts we are beating a dead horse. To tell you the truth I think we have beat it, Ran it over , and started to beat it again. Where is this getting all of us? Where is it getting Mr.Calkins besides attention that he does not deserve. We are going nowehere with the conversations that he has sparked with his claims of rank and training. Now claims of time in the USMC? I think we all know what we are looking at. It is not my spot or my right to call anyone a fake but my father always told me that " if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck then son it's a duck." I think that statement could be used here. Let's not give anymore time to these pointless discussions. We know that there are some people out there that lack the character training that is associated with the martial arts. Some people need to be the center of attention. In closing let's move on. Who cares if he is a phony his students are the ones that are suffering not you or I. The claims that he makes does not effect the training of our students does it? I have offered to help Mr.Calkins and the offer still stands but only if he comes clean on some of the issues that are present in his training. To the rest of you I look forward to further discussions that will increase my knowledge and hopefully some of my posts will increase yours.

Yours in the arts!

Rob

 

[Gentle Fist]

I agree.

But I think I may make one last stop over at the Eagle Fed and see if they will grant me the title of "Darth".

 

[clfsean]

Rob... you're right & that post was nicely done.

However, closure truely lies with Bruce Calkins, not us. He has to answer the questions posed by his "peers", and I use that term loosely & deliberately in measuring him against most of us. We've all asked questions time & time again that any normal person would've answered up front & forthright to the satisfaction of 99% of the audience. He hasn't. He eludes, he redirects, he out right ignores. He continues to puff smoke & work with mirrors in his act. He's offered up "credentials" that aren't worth what they cost to show his position as a "body guard". His certificates were shown to be lacking in credibility & authenticity.

He can offer closure. He can answer the questions, satisfy the concerns raised, come 100% clean not only to the members of the board here, but most importantly to himself. He can begin to train in true, above board MA styles & systems. It sounds like there are people who are willing to forgive & forget to a degree & even work with him in the future, but it has to originate from him. It can't come from us collectively calling "BS!!!" on him & walking away feeling as if we accomplished something when there's too much left on the table.

The ball's in his court.

 

[The Kai]

Man, what if he does train for a year is he going to call himself a 12 dan, or maybe take on 2 sokeships (I think the eaglet federation would do that for you)

 

[Andrew Green]

The ball's in his court.

Or everyone elses to just ignore it...

Why do people focus on the negative so much? Why do Martial artists feel this compulsion to seek out and bring into the spotlight the stuff that should be left in the dark?

 

[Aegis]

Or everyone elses to just ignore it...

Why do people focus on the negative so much? Why do Martial artists feel this compulsion to seek out and bring into the spotlight the stuff that should be left in the dark?

Because if we don't expose the bad and point out the difference between the bad and the good, it will all be the same in the eyes of the public.

Paraphrased: "All it takes for evil men to triumph is for the good men to stand aside and do nothing"

If we do nothing, this could be the future of martial arts.

 

[Tripitaka of AA]

Well said Aegis, and you picked precisely the right quotation to explain the case for shining that spotlight. :asian:

 

[TimoS]

As much I enjoy bringing questionable backgrounds to light, I am not quite certain this is the place for it. The way I see it, most of us are already training in legitimate arts. Many are already teachers themselves. I don't think a potential student of someone like mr. Calkins here is going to venture into here. So what do we achieve by all this ? I can speak only for myself and, to be honest, I read and participate in threads like these dealing with mr. Calkins mostly for the entertainment value they provide

 

[John Bishop]

Well, there haven't been any rebuttals today, so it appears that the Soke has left the building. At least for now.

 

[Tripitaka of AA]

I'm beginning to think that any threads raised in "The Great Debate" forum are invisible to Calkins, as he hasn't worked out how to get here. He seems to respond to those threads that were raised elsewhere (then transferred here later).

I shall PM him.

 

[Andrew Green]

Paraphrased: "All it takes for evil men to triumph is for the good men to stand aside and do nothing"

It shows that everyone is only interested in the petty bickering over rank and titles. If you want to do something, do something positive and quite the pety bickering over silly trivial nonsense.

If we do nothing, this could be the future of martial arts.

Nonsense.

The interenet has what 0.1% of martial artists on forums? I'd say I guessed very high. Most people really don't care in the least. But should they stumble across these sites what should they see?

1) A bunch of "supposed" experts bickering over ranks and titles?

2) Productive dialogue working together to improve there training?

This is like a school yard fight over who has the coolest imaginary friend...

 

[chinto01]

Mr.Green well put. I believe in the beginning there was good intent but now it has gotten out of control. At what point do we just forget about this individual and his exotic claims? I would rather see us focus on how to bring the arts together and share information rather than see who has the biggest shoe size. We have all done some extraordinary things during our journey I bet. Let's start to share those experiences and leave the other insignificant issues be.

Rob

 

[Aegis]

It shows that everyone is only interested in the petty bickering over rank and titles. If you want to do something, do something positive and quite the pety bickering over silly trivial nonsense.

The interenet has what 0.1% of martial artists on forums? I'd say I guessed very high. Most people really don't care in the least.

Andrew: what would you suggest? I'm a few thousand miles from the school in question in this instance, so I can hardly go and try to sort things out myself, so the best I can do is ask questions to trya nd get the information about this person out in the open. While There might not be many people on this forum, if you take into account all the fora I post on, that's an audience of probably around 20000 martial artists from aroudn the world. If nothing else, getting the information to them is a start, and I for one prefer that to sitting back and letting people with questionable claims get away without having to justify/back up their claims.

If you don't like that, then feel free not to paticipate, I'm not forcefully dragging you into the Debate forum, and neither is anyoen else.

But should they stumble across these sites what should they see?

1) A bunch of "supposed" experts bickering over ranks and titles?

2) Productive dialogue working together to improve there training?

Or 3) a load of people who aren't making outrageous claims questioning someone else who is.

Or even more options, depending on the nature of the forum.

It's not a black and white situation here. Yes the arguments that ensue may not be pleasant, and they may not show the best sides of all participants, but if it gets some information that was otherwise unavailable into the public realm, then great!

The fact is that once soemthing is said on the internet, it is accessible for everyone with an online computer. If in future someone wants to do some research into a future instructor and they type "Bruce Calkins" and come here, they will see that he was evasive, that his training history was called into question, that he exagerated, that he promoted himself, that he used a frudulent organisation, and plenty of other information that might have just not existed without these debates.

I see the good side to these situations, and I accept the bad with the good as a necessary means to making information available to those who look for it.

 

[Aegis]

And for the record, I agree that this matter can be dropped now, unless Bruce comes back with more claims or some evidence for his other claims.

 

[arnisador]

It's dead, Jim!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Every claim has been debunked.

His only current certification is his Eagle Federation Sokeship.

Given the details of that organization, it's worth is obvious.

I think this matter is closed.