Chuck Norris and TKD

InfiniteLoop

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Sir, that is your misunderstanding. There was a meeting pegged as April 1955 (With some info that may not be accurate) agreeing to adopt that name.

This was vigorously opposed by many and took quite a while to become a reality. It really did not happen much if at all to until 1960 or later. Further, no one claimed that the instant a name was adopted a switch was flipped and other systems magically and immediately changed their technique. That did not mean TSD people were suddenly doing TK-D
I won't take your word for it but leaving that aside, what I'm arguing, based on my research and observations, is that Tang Soo Do had already formed its own Korean identity, and so the name change was intended to reflect a change rather than impose one. That is not to say that additional changes didn't occur.

If you don't think that TSD had its own identity, then you have to account for why they kick TKD-style with the hips, why they spar TKD style with the legs, etc.

You also have to take into account that the supposed revolution TKD brought to kicking by emphasizing spins, jumps, and turns was already taking place in TSD, as stated by Chuck Norris stationed in South Korea 1958, joining a TSD school performing moves we today associate with TaeKwonDo.
 

dvcochran

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So you were arguing with me all this time bout about the use of plural,.


It was my understanding that schools (plural) adopted the TKD moniker after the 1955 unification, since that was the hole point. Ifno such thing happened, what exactly was the unification? Unification entails pluralism.

General Choi did not seek approval from the South Korean president to merely name his own branch. That would obviously not be neccesary, and it wouldn't be a unification since it would only involve him and no other parties.
You really need to study the S. Korean political system before you claim to know anything about the unification. So much more was involved.
 

InfiniteLoop

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You really need to study the S. Korean political system before you claim to know anything about the unification. So much more was involved.

I am quite well read on the subject. There was obviously resistance. But to suggest that not a single school adopted Chois TaeKwon-Do moniker in 1955-1958 is pushing it. That is not my reading of it.

Did it mean anything to adopt the name change? Most definitely not. After all, there weren't any Korean patterns available. It was later shown that even when a full set of patterns were available, schools didn't neccesarily adopt them, settling only for the name change to TaeKwon-Do.

Which again supports my claim that the difference between Tang Soo Do and TaeKwonDo was virtually indistinguishable.
 
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InfiniteLoop

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This discussing reminds of when Jesse Ventura got into trouble for claiming to be a Navy Seal, which he in fact wasn't.

Jesse Ventura was part of the precursor to the Navy Seal called UTDs - Underwater Demolition which later did become part of the Seals... However, both existed independent of each other when Ventura served. He never served in a Seal Team but they are retroactively rewritten as Seal Team Units in the history books, due to the fact that todays teams are part of the Seal..
 

Earl Weiss

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But to suggest that not a single school adopted Chois TaeKwon-Do moniker in 1955-1958 is pushing it. That is not my reading of it.
Sir, well cite your source of "reading" please. Seems you have now changed your position once again to a 1955-58 timeline instead of the 1950's . SI have asked numerous times for you to cite 3 schools doing " TKD" during that time outside of the ODK / 29th infantry division and so far the result is Zero. How about one school?
Which again supports my claim that the difference between Tang Soo Do and TaeKwonDo was virtually indistinguishable.
You started out by claiming Chuck Norris did "TKD" in Korea. When shown to be wrong you changed your argument to say well TKD schools then were indistinguishable from TSD so apparently you consider it the same thing.
 

Buka

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I've taught in one Tae-Kwon-Do dojo and in several Tang-Soo-Do dojos over the years. They were run by friends of mine. I taught them what I did (American Karate) because that's what they asked me to teach.

To me, the TKD guys and the Tang Soo guys moved and kicked differently.
 

Dirty Dog

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I've taught in one Tae-Kwon-Do dojo and in several Tang-Soo-Do dojos over the years. They were run by friends of mine. I taught them what I did (American Karate) because that's what they asked me to teach.

To me, the TKD guys and the Tang Soo guys moved and kicked differently.
The differences are subtle, but real. I'm sure it's difficult for those without a lot of experience to notice.
 

InfiniteLoop

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To me, the TKD guys and the Tang Soo guys moved and kicked differently.


I have posted footage showing the same hip mechanics, stances, rushed and badly controlled, pillow fighting punching etc... ITF sparring in a nutshell.

As for forms, more even level between hands and kicks than in TaeKwonDo. It's clear that the TSD folks spend a bit more time on punches, albeit demo punches.
 

InfiniteLoop

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I've taught in one Tae-Kwon-Do dojo and in several Tang-Soo-Do dojos over the years. They were run by friends of mine. I taught them what I did (American Karate) because that's what they asked me to teach.

To me, the TKD guys and the Tang Soo guys moved and kicked differently.

What was the federation? I have seen TKD dojos that look exactly like Shotokan. And Shotokan does not look like TSD even though it came from Shotokan
 

InfiniteLoop

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Sir, well cite your source of "reading" please. Seems you have now changed your position once again to a 1955-58 timeline instead of the 1950's . SI have asked numerous times for you to cite 3 schools doing " TKD" during that time outside of the ODK / 29th infantry division and so far the result is Zero. How about one school?

You started out by claiming Chuck Norris did "TKD" in Korea. When shown to be wrong you changed your argument to say well TKD schools then were indistinguishable from TSD so apparently you consider it the same thing.

Your inaccurate recaps are getting tiresome. I never claimed that Chuck Norris joined any TKD labelled school in Korea.
 

InfiniteLoop

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Apparently, you do not.

Did I roundhouse kick you in the head in a past lifetime? I have nothing against you, but you clearly have some beef with me.

Chuck Norris in one interview stated : it was wasn't yet called TaeKwonDo" in another: Now it's called TaeKwonDo.

So, does Chuck lack experience talking about Tang Soo Do and TaeKwonDo interchangeably?
 
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dvcochran

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I've taught in one Tae-Kwon-Do dojo and in several Tang-Soo-Do dojos over the years. They were run by friends of mine. I taught them what I did (American Karate) because that's what they asked me to teach.

To me, the TKD guys and the Tang Soo guys moved and kicked differently.
Would it be accurate from your experience that the TSD kicks were closer to Karate kicks?
 

Earl Weiss

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Did I roundhouse kick you in the head in a past lifetime? I have nothing against you, but you clearly have some beef with me.

Chuck Norris in one interview stated : it was wasn't yet called TaeKwonDo" in another: Now it's called TaeKwonDo.

So, does Chuck lack experience talking about Tang Soo Do and TaeKwonDo interchangeably?
Sir, what you are doing is called "Arguing From Authority" Argument from Authority Critical Thinking | Intelligent Speculation, which is the false belief that the "Authority" is the final word on the topic. IF note the big IF, you feel Chuck Norris is the final word and correct in believing that TKD was simply a new name for TKD then so be it. If it was not simply a new name, then your belief that he did TKD in Korea remains erroneous.
 

InfiniteLoop

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Sir, what you are doing is called "Arguing From Authority" Argument from Authority Critical Thinking | Intelligent Speculation, which is the false belief that the "Authority" is the final word on the topic. IF note the big IF, you feel Chuck Norris is the final word and correct in believing that TKD was simply a new name for TKD then so be it. If it was not simply a new name, then your belief that he did TKD in Korea remains erroneous.

Dirty Dog was the one using argument of authority (lack of experience) as an explanation... I then appropriately reminded him that it was Chuck Norris who started this debate and thread with his statements, not I...

And Chuck is hardly inexperienced
 

InfiniteLoop

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IF note the big IF, you feel Chuck Norris is the final word and correct in believing that TKD was simply a new name for TKD then so be it. If it was not simply a new name, then your our belief that he did TKD in Korea remains erroneous.
There is no yes or no. It all depends on ones perspective.

By way of analogy, wolf and dogs were once believe to be different species. Whether you think they are or not is up to the observer.

For years, wolves and dogs were considered separate species: canis familiaris and canis lupus. However, more recently, scientists generally agree they are both a sub-species of canis lupus
 

InfiniteLoop

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Earl, since you like to invoke stance modifications as your go-to-argument...

Do these stances look any different from the stance height in TaeKwonDo?.....

 
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