don bohrer
Brown Belt
Could I get you guys to go over this tech? You know the way you've learned it. Add some insite, etc. I really don't like this one, but am trying to understand it.
don
don
Chinese Fan aka. Unfurling Lance
- Thread starter don bohrer
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MisterMike
Guest
Unfurling Lance is the name given the 2nd knife technique in Parker Kenpo Form 6.
I don't beleive it to be as sound of a technique as the remaining techniqes because:
You are using 2 parries to do the work of one. It's slower, and on the inside for that matter.
The front kick bends them over and then you strike horizontally as their head is coming down. Chance for a miss, or ineffective strike.
After teh elbow, when is the knife dropped? Because the form has you release thier weapon weilding arm to do a claw-backknuckle. (Some strike the bicep area rather than the head after the kick, to help the chances of dropping the knife.)
I think it is more of a category completion technique as far as Parker Kenpo. The rest of the technique is good, as it is the sme as Unfurling Crane.
My $.02
I don't beleive it to be as sound of a technique as the remaining techniqes because:
You are using 2 parries to do the work of one. It's slower, and on the inside for that matter.
The front kick bends them over and then you strike horizontally as their head is coming down. Chance for a miss, or ineffective strike.
After teh elbow, when is the knife dropped? Because the form has you release thier weapon weilding arm to do a claw-backknuckle. (Some strike the bicep area rather than the head after the kick, to help the chances of dropping the knife.)
I think it is more of a category completion technique as far as Parker Kenpo. The rest of the technique is good, as it is the sme as Unfurling Crane.
My $.02
Well, here is our version of Chinese Fan, it is different than the Tracy version because the ending is more like The Dagger.
Also, Lance tech in AK indicate a knife defense, which this technique is not. But I will talk about the Chinese Fan punch tech.
Vs right cross/right roundhouse (offical Tracy is for a right step-through)
1) Step back right foot to 5:30 to left neutral bow.
2) Left outward chop block to opponent's wrist/forearm.
3) Right front kick to opponents groin,
4) Plant forward (12:00) off kick into right neutral bow as you do a right vertical punch to opp solar-plexus.
5) Shuffle into a right horse as you do a right thrusting elbow to opponents solar-plexus
6) Right hammerfist to the groin
7) Right rising (obscure) elbow to opp chin
8) Right rolling backfist to opp nose
9) Left palm-heel to opp chin as you shift into a rt forward bow
I don't like this tech because I don't like creating space, and then closing back in with the opponent. I would prefer to simply close, trying to break into the opponents centerline. If this tech was taught as a beginner tech I could see the point about stepping back and blocking to give yourself time, but this is usually taught at brown, I think it is too basic for its belt level.
Lamont
Also, Lance tech in AK indicate a knife defense, which this technique is not. But I will talk about the Chinese Fan punch tech.
Vs right cross/right roundhouse (offical Tracy is for a right step-through)
1) Step back right foot to 5:30 to left neutral bow.
2) Left outward chop block to opponent's wrist/forearm.
3) Right front kick to opponents groin,
4) Plant forward (12:00) off kick into right neutral bow as you do a right vertical punch to opp solar-plexus.
5) Shuffle into a right horse as you do a right thrusting elbow to opponents solar-plexus
6) Right hammerfist to the groin
7) Right rising (obscure) elbow to opp chin
8) Right rolling backfist to opp nose
9) Left palm-heel to opp chin as you shift into a rt forward bow
I don't like this tech because I don't like creating space, and then closing back in with the opponent. I would prefer to simply close, trying to break into the opponents centerline. If this tech was taught as a beginner tech I could see the point about stepping back and blocking to give yourself time, but this is usually taught at brown, I think it is too basic for its belt level.
Lamont
This is an EPAK version. I am looking at a low line knife attack, which can easily be changed into a high line.
When executed in Long Form 6, the left downward outward parry/block is simultaneous (if it does not replace) the "right vertical outward block to inside of opponent's left punch" as noted below. As you counter grab the opponent's weapon hand with your left (rolling it such that if the opponent does retain the blade, the arteries are not exposed); Then insert a inward horizontal middle knuckle strike to the inside of the elbow. If the opponent does not release the weapon, continue to control the weapon as you execute the right hammerfist, obscure elbow and claw, handsword, and kick - NOTE: you can do them all without releasing the weapon hand.
Not my favorite technique against a knife, but this is one way that I have seen demonstrated
16. UNFURLING CRANE (front left and right punch with opponent's right leg forward)
1. While standing naturally step back with your left foot into a right neutral bow (shift your hands into guarding position), deliver a right vertical outward block to inside of opponent's left punch.
2. Immediately shuffle in and execute a right inward and left outward combination on the inside of opponent's right punch, continuing the right inward and transforming it into a right inverted downward hammer fist strike to opponent's groin. (Left hand checks).
3. Follow up with a left inward overhead claw and right rolling vertical back knuckle thrust to opponent's face.
4. Dragging your left foot to your right, strike down to opponent's groin with a right rolling inverted downward hammer fist. (Left hand checks).
5. While close (shuffle in if necessary) in to your opponent, strike up and to his jaw with your right elbow (obscure wing fashion) continuing the move and transforming it into an inverted upward five-finger claw to opponent's face.
6. In the same move deliver a left heel palm strike (fingers pointing inward to your right) to opponent's solar plexus and a right front scoop kick to opponent's groin. At this point your right hand is raised and cocked above your head and you should be balancing on your left leg in a one legged stance with your right foot cocked.
7. Simultaneously deliver a right inward hammering handsword to opponent's neck and a right knife-edge kick to inside of opponent's right knee.
8. Right front the kick go into a right front crossover and cover out twice toward 6:00.
Just some ideas,
-Michael
When executed in Long Form 6, the left downward outward parry/block is simultaneous (if it does not replace) the "right vertical outward block to inside of opponent's left punch" as noted below. As you counter grab the opponent's weapon hand with your left (rolling it such that if the opponent does retain the blade, the arteries are not exposed); Then insert a inward horizontal middle knuckle strike to the inside of the elbow. If the opponent does not release the weapon, continue to control the weapon as you execute the right hammerfist, obscure elbow and claw, handsword, and kick - NOTE: you can do them all without releasing the weapon hand.
Not my favorite technique against a knife, but this is one way that I have seen demonstrated
16. UNFURLING CRANE (front left and right punch with opponent's right leg forward)
1. While standing naturally step back with your left foot into a right neutral bow (shift your hands into guarding position), deliver a right vertical outward block to inside of opponent's left punch.
2. Immediately shuffle in and execute a right inward and left outward combination on the inside of opponent's right punch, continuing the right inward and transforming it into a right inverted downward hammer fist strike to opponent's groin. (Left hand checks).
3. Follow up with a left inward overhead claw and right rolling vertical back knuckle thrust to opponent's face.
4. Dragging your left foot to your right, strike down to opponent's groin with a right rolling inverted downward hammer fist. (Left hand checks).
5. While close (shuffle in if necessary) in to your opponent, strike up and to his jaw with your right elbow (obscure wing fashion) continuing the move and transforming it into an inverted upward five-finger claw to opponent's face.
6. In the same move deliver a left heel palm strike (fingers pointing inward to your right) to opponent's solar plexus and a right front scoop kick to opponent's groin. At this point your right hand is raised and cocked above your head and you should be balancing on your left leg in a one legged stance with your right foot cocked.
7. Simultaneously deliver a right inward hammering handsword to opponent's neck and a right knife-edge kick to inside of opponent's right knee.
8. Right front the kick go into a right front crossover and cover out twice toward 6:00.
Just some ideas,
-Michael
OP
OP
don bohrer
Brown Belt
I'm busy with work and will read all the comments later on. Thanks guys
don
don
OP
OP
don bohrer
Brown Belt
I'm going to have to go back and look at my tech! I see only fragments of what we call Chinese Fan in the desciptions I am reading. I will post the tech in detail later when I have a chance.
don
don
D
dcence
Guest
I think there is a miscommunication here. I think the original question was about the 2nd technique in Long 6, but Billings is describing Unfurling Crane, which is different at the beginning.
In any event, I learned the 2nd technique in Long 6 as a defense against a club thrust. I don't like it for a knife attack. So to me it would be "Unfurling Storm".
When I do it the middle knuckle strike goes to the inside of the upper arm at the brachial plexus area. The disarm occurs right after that and then you proceed to do the remainder (which looks very similar to Unfurling Crane) with a club in your hand.
In any event, I learned the 2nd technique in Long 6 as a defense against a club thrust. I don't like it for a knife attack. So to me it would be "Unfurling Storm".
When I do it the middle knuckle strike goes to the inside of the upper arm at the brachial plexus area. The disarm occurs right after that and then you proceed to do the remainder (which looks very similar to Unfurling Crane) with a club in your hand.
Mr. Ence,
How are you doing the disarm?
I've played with a club disarm there where my left hand after checking the weapon arm, grabs the club above my opponents hand. The right hand after doing the center-knuckle strike to the inner arm, begins to fold inward for the elbow, but I use the forearm to strike upward against the opponents wrist while the left pulls down on the club. It makes for a good strip, but it doesn't flow as well as the base move.
One point of anatomy, the brachial plexus is located at the base of the neck (near) where it meets the shoulder. The area in the inner arm, above the elbow has various brachial nerves radiating through it, but it is not the brachial plexus.
Salute,
Lamont
PS: Were you at the AKKI House of Pain camp last December??? I think I saw and maybe (briefly) met you there.
How are you doing the disarm?
I've played with a club disarm there where my left hand after checking the weapon arm, grabs the club above my opponents hand. The right hand after doing the center-knuckle strike to the inner arm, begins to fold inward for the elbow, but I use the forearm to strike upward against the opponents wrist while the left pulls down on the club. It makes for a good strip, but it doesn't flow as well as the base move.
One point of anatomy, the brachial plexus is located at the base of the neck (near) where it meets the shoulder. The area in the inner arm, above the elbow has various brachial nerves radiating through it, but it is not the brachial plexus.
Salute,
Lamont
PS: Were you at the AKKI House of Pain camp last December??? I think I saw and maybe (briefly) met you there.
OP
OP
don bohrer
Brown Belt
Here's our version of Chinese Fan. I consider this a broken tech, but still am reguired to work with it. Somewhere along the line I think this tech was passed down incorrectly. I just don't get it, and don't like it. I was hoping to iron this tech out, but everyones variation is so different.
Against a stepping right handed knife attack.
Chinese Fan
1. Step back into a left supported cat.
2. Execute a right middle nuckle to the opponents right forearm, and immeadiatley follow with a left rising vertical parry. (Both defensive actions are to ver the knive off center or cause it to be dropped).
3. Execute a right front kick to the groin.
4. Repeat step #2 if the knife wasn't dropped.
5. Shuffle in an execute a right horizonal forearm slam with a left palm supporting palm strike. This attack can be to the head or body.
don
Against a stepping right handed knife attack.
Chinese Fan
1. Step back into a left supported cat.
2. Execute a right middle nuckle to the opponents right forearm, and immeadiatley follow with a left rising vertical parry. (Both defensive actions are to ver the knive off center or cause it to be dropped).
3. Execute a right front kick to the groin.
4. Repeat step #2 if the knife wasn't dropped.
5. Shuffle in an execute a right horizonal forearm slam with a left palm supporting palm strike. This attack can be to the head or body.
don
D
dcence
Guest
Hey Lamont,
I haven't checked this thread for a while so I apologize for not responding. Thanks for the anatomy lesson, but in any event that target in the upper arm is quite sensitive.
As far as the disarm, for me I find it flows more if you use your right hand to grab the club after the middle knuckle strike right above the opponent's hand and then use the left hand as a fulcurm to leverage it away.
Yes, I was at the House of Pain camp, but don't recall meeting you. I have seen your posts in many forums and wish I would have made the acquaintance better. If that opportunity comes up again, please let me know who you are.
Thanks
Derek
I haven't checked this thread for a while so I apologize for not responding. Thanks for the anatomy lesson, but in any event that target in the upper arm is quite sensitive.
As far as the disarm, for me I find it flows more if you use your right hand to grab the club after the middle knuckle strike right above the opponent's hand and then use the left hand as a fulcurm to leverage it away.
Yes, I was at the House of Pain camp, but don't recall meeting you. I have seen your posts in many forums and wish I would have made the acquaintance better. If that opportunity comes up again, please let me know who you are.
Thanks
Derek
Me being at the House of Pain Camp was sort of a fluke last year, especially considering that I am not an AKKI member. I had a great time though, and thought the camp had a great energy.
I often drive through eastern Idaho, so I will try to contact you if I wind up in your neck of the woods.
Lamont
W
WhiteTiger
Guest
Don,
The Tracy's version of this technique is essentially the same with a few additional movements at the end. As taught by me this is not an incrediblly effective technique. It has been left in the cirriculum ,because the opening movements are unique, and not seen in other techniques. This is probably the most difficult technique to learn in the system, and while the technique is not the most usefull the individual movements are valid.
OP
OP
don bohrer
Brown Belt
White Tiger,
Do you think this tech was originally accomplished with a knife in hand instead of a middle knuckle strike?
don
Do you think this tech was originally accomplished with a knife in hand instead of a middle knuckle strike?
don
W
WhiteTiger
Guest
We teach it as a, step in knife thrust, defence.
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