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Rainman
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What is category completion and how does it work?
:asian:
:asian:
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Scott Bonner
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- #2
I'm just a beginner (purple belt) so I can't give the best answer, but I'll try.
Essentially, one of the things that sets Kenpo apart is it's methodical, persistent investigation ("scientific", as some call it) of martial arts concepts. That means categorizing different types of attacks, defenses, transitions, etc.
When someone says something completes a category, they mean one of two things. First, they may mean that they have listed all the types of, say, attacks that are imaginable within a certain category -- truly, they have completed the category by learning/teaching all the elements within. See example below.
The second thing someone might mean by the phrase is that they do not think given technique or attack is effective, but it is taught anyway because it is part of some category. The idea is that, though the item in question is not effective for them, it should still be in the system and still be taught because it will be effective for one of their students or in some obscure situation. Also, by analyzing every element of a "category", we can learn why that element is not commonly done even though other elements in its "category" are -- i.e. learn why no one tries to do such and such punch from such and such angle by trying it and finding out it requires a difficult weight shift, limiting it's use to very few situations.
A simple example of a "category" of motion: You can block/parry with the _right hand_ in each of _4 frontal quadrants_. When attacked from the upper left (i.e. by right roundhouse punch) you can do the technique Delayed Sword, which starts with a inward block with the right hand. When attacked from the upper right, Sword of Destruction. When attacked from the lower left, Intellectual Departure. When attacked from the lower right, Deflecting Hammer.
Using the left hand would start a new category. You could also make a larger category that includes both. And so forth. Everything is systematically laid out, so that eventually no significant stone is left unturned. This is done by dividing the seemingly infinite information into categories and investigating each category thoroughly.
Peace,
Scott
Essentially, one of the things that sets Kenpo apart is it's methodical, persistent investigation ("scientific", as some call it) of martial arts concepts. That means categorizing different types of attacks, defenses, transitions, etc.
When someone says something completes a category, they mean one of two things. First, they may mean that they have listed all the types of, say, attacks that are imaginable within a certain category -- truly, they have completed the category by learning/teaching all the elements within. See example below.
The second thing someone might mean by the phrase is that they do not think given technique or attack is effective, but it is taught anyway because it is part of some category. The idea is that, though the item in question is not effective for them, it should still be in the system and still be taught because it will be effective for one of their students or in some obscure situation. Also, by analyzing every element of a "category", we can learn why that element is not commonly done even though other elements in its "category" are -- i.e. learn why no one tries to do such and such punch from such and such angle by trying it and finding out it requires a difficult weight shift, limiting it's use to very few situations.
A simple example of a "category" of motion: You can block/parry with the _right hand_ in each of _4 frontal quadrants_. When attacked from the upper left (i.e. by right roundhouse punch) you can do the technique Delayed Sword, which starts with a inward block with the right hand. When attacked from the upper right, Sword of Destruction. When attacked from the lower left, Intellectual Departure. When attacked from the lower right, Deflecting Hammer.
Using the left hand would start a new category. You could also make a larger category that includes both. And so forth. Everything is systematically laid out, so that eventually no significant stone is left unturned. This is done by dividing the seemingly infinite information into categories and investigating each category thoroughly.
Peace,
Scott
and nothing more than that! If your class is asked a question and no one happens to know the answer or does know do you just say "such and such" is category completion?:uhohh:
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Scott Bonner
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- Thread Starter
- #4
I don't run a class, so no.
My Sensei takes pride in knowing the whys of everything and goes to great effort to get information, so when he says it, I believe him. I suspect teachers misuse CC all the time, though. If you are asking, do the students say such and such is category completion, then I'd have to say they better be able to back it up, cause they'll have to name all the other elements in the category.
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Rainman
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- Thread Starter
- #5
thanks for the heads up
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
When in doubt answer category completion.
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Scott Bonner
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- #9
Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Are you refering to the example I gave? If so, the category is ways to defend with the right hand from frontal attack. In this case, the elements of the category are limited to one simple attack (roundhouse punches and front kicks) in each of the 4 different quadrants. Obviously, it's a simple and limited example (many ways to attack and different places to come from, well beyond just 4 quadrants or roundhouse punches and front kicks). I didn't want to reach beyond my knowledge so I kept it small and simple.
Peace
Scott
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Scott Bonner
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- #10
Originally posted by jfarnsworth
When in doubt answer category completion.
It is childish ego that makes a teacher unable to say "I'm not sure. Let me check on it." So, they rely on something obscure like "it's category completion" when they don't really know what the element is for. There is a definite place for talking about category completion, but calling it up inappropriately is just a sign of weakness.
Peace
Scott
Mr. Bonner I didn't mean to get under your skin there. You gave a fine example there you can get into others like Dance of Death, Thundering Hammers, Flashing Mace, Flashing Wings, Leaping Crane and the rest of the crane family as Mr. Planas calls it. If you look at these techniques the initial move are almost identical the next move is continue the circle, cut the circle, reverse the circle. These are also a category completion phrase. The thing is I personally don't like the category completion answer. It is used way too loosely. Also I happen to like Mr. Hughes he's a good guy and talked with him on some occassions. Actually I've had lunch with him a couple of times in Mentor. I wasn't trying to disrespect him either. Hopefully you didn't take those the wrong way.
Jason Farnsworth
Jason Farnsworth
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
I wasn't talking about just your fine example but all the catagories possible
:asian:
:asian:
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Scott Bonner
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- Thread Starter
- #13
It's cool. You didn't get under my skin. I could tell you didn't like the CC cop-out from the emoticons you gave. I was trying to agree -- I think it is weak to use CC when one doesn't know the answer -- while still saying that there is great value in the concept of category completion when not used too loosely. In short, I was agreeing with you.
You know Mr. Hughes? From where, if I may ask? Would you like me to say "hi" for you?
Also, just call me Scott. Nothing wrong with formality, but I don't want any myself, thanks.
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Scott Bonner
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- #14
Oh, humor. heh heh. Sometimes I miss that stuff.
Thanks.
Scott,
You can absolutely tell Mr. Hughes I said hello. I have met with him at Mr. Planas' seminars in Mentor, Ohio over the past year or so. We've e-mailed from time to time as well. I was glad to hear you agree with me I took what you said the wrong way. That's what happens sometimes when you don't get the person on the phone rather than just a bunch of words posted somewhere.
Jason Farnsworth
You can absolutely tell Mr. Hughes I said hello. I have met with him at Mr. Planas' seminars in Mentor, Ohio over the past year or so. We've e-mailed from time to time as well. I was glad to hear you agree with me I took what you said the wrong way. That's what happens sometimes when you don't get the person on the phone rather than just a bunch of words posted somewhere.
Jason Farnsworth
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
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Scott Bonner
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- Thread Starter
- #17
Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Ok, will do!
I've read this whole thread, and i still don't quite know what it is.
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Then it is time for Thread Completion
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Rainman
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- #20
Originally posted by nightingale8472
I've read this whole thread, and i still don't quite know what it is.
A teaching tool. Pretend you had a category named "Inward Blocks". You were looking at techniques- round up all the teks that use an inward block as the first move. Now you have completed that particular part of the category of "blocks". Seems to me to be related to family groupings and relative positioning, grafting etc. I found a use for it- it is hair splitting though- which I like to do.
:asian:
