Can We Get Any Crazier?

[Kacey]

About 15 years ago, I was talking to another teacher-in-training; he was doing his student teaching at the school where his 8 year-old daughter was a student. She fell down and scraped her knee, then ran for Daddy to "make it better". He cleaned her knee, put a band-aid on it, and hugged her. He was called into the principal's office later and told that, while they understood that she was his daughter, under no circumstances (other than first aid) was there any reason for teachers to touch students. This is not new - it's just not been reported in the past.

Do kids at the middle school where I teach hug? All the time. Do we do anything about it? Only if it's the middle of the hall during passing period, and they're blocking traffic, if one (or more) of the kids involved complains or appears upset, or if they're supposed to be somewhere other than where they are - say, if they're in the hallway hugging during class. But as long as it's just hugging, that's not a concern... making out in the stairwell, now... that's another issue.

 

[Cryozombie]

But I have a feeling Cryo will be coming along very shortly to say, "It's Illinois - what do you expect?"

I have nothing to say... I just lump it in with the school that expelled the gradeshooler for having the plastic lunchroom knife the lunchroom provided to him or the girl expelled for drugs for having PMS pills.

If I ever have kids they either won't go to public schools here, or I am gonna be that administrations worst nightmare.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Let me start off by saying that I don't agree with this in any way. But I enjoy playing Devil's Advocate on such things, so here goes.

Reading the article, it does not say whether the girl was hugging another boy or girl. Therefore, let's assume for the sake of argument, that she was hugging at least one other boy. How is an administrator to differentiate this hug, from a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship hug?

Consequently, if a boyfriend/girlfriend were to hug, and were subsequently given detention, a positive defense of that couple would be that boys and girls hug all the time in school without consequences. And how is that fair.

Remember, a school administrator can not get into trouble for following the rules set forth by the school board. But they can for ignoring it, or using "discretion", especially if a controversy were to develop as described above.

Like I say, I can't stand zero-tolerences policies in any way. Each situation often needs to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. But in some ways, you can see how society has forced the hand of administators.

 

[Andrew Green]

good point. Let's ban heterosexual acts of affection, only same sex displays of affection whould be allowed :lol:

 

[shesulsa]

good point. Let's ban heterosexual acts of affection, only same sex displays of affection whould be allowed :lol:

Nah, that got girls kicked off the Max train here.

 

[DArnold]

The loss of common sense:

FIFTY YEARS
What a difference 50 years makes.

Scenario: Jack pulls into school parking lot with rifle in gun rack.

1957 - Vice Principal comes over, takes a look at Jack's rifle, goes to his car and gets his to show Jack.

2007 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Scenario: Jack and Mark get into a fist fight after school.

1957 - Crowd gathers. Jack wins. Jack and Mark shake hands and end up best friends. Nobody goes to jail, nobody arrested, nobody expelled.

2007 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Jack and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Jack started it.

Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1957 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by Principal. Sits still in class.

2007 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his father's car and his Dad gives him a whipping.

1957 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2007 - Billy's Dad is arrested for child abuse Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. Billy's sister is told by state psychologist that she remembers being abused herself and their Dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some headache medicine to school.

1957 - Mark shares headache medicine with Principal out on the smoking dock.

2007 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario: Pedro fails high school English.

1957 : Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.

2007 : Pedro's cause is taken up by state democratic party. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action law suit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he can't speak English.

Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed .

1957 - Ants die.

2007 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary, hugs him to comfort him.

1957 - In a short time Johnny feels better and goes on playing.

2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison.

Still amazed what 50 years can do????

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

good point. Let's ban heterosexual acts of affection, only same sex displays of affection whould be allowed :lol:

I'm sorry, I thought there was room for serious discussion in this thread.

I give what would be an example that someone would typically encounter and you make a ridiculous reply, rather than deal with the scenario itself.
Congratulations!

 

[CuongNhuka]

In my school district, you get chewed out (with your parents present) the first time, and the second time you just get suspended. So, 2 days of detention looks real good.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Let me start off by saying that I don't agree with this in any way. But I enjoy playing Devil's Advocate on such things, so here goes.

Reading the article, it does not say whether the girl was hugging another boy or girl. Therefore, let's assume for the sake of argument, that she was hugging at least one other boy. How is an administrator to differentiate this hug, from a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship hug?

Consequently, if a boyfriend/girlfriend were to hug, and were subsequently given detention, a positive defense of that couple would be that boys and girls hug all the time in school without consequences. And how is that fair.

Remember, a school administrator can not get into trouble for following the rules set forth by the school board. But they can for ignoring it, or using "discretion", especially if a controversy were to develop as described above.

Like I say, I can't stand zero-tolerences policies in any way. Each situation often needs to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. But in some ways, you can see how society has forced the hand of administators.

The thing about this case is that the relationship--whether it was two friends or a dating couple--isn't what's being punished, but the act of hugging. Whether the hug's between a boyfriend and girlfriend or two friends is pretty irrelevant according to the enforced rules.

The issue is that the zero-tolerance nature of the rule is taking a legitimate concern (students using school property as a make-out point) and pushing to an extreme point of ridiculousness (students aren't allowed to touch each other, even in a purely platonic, friendly manner.) Plus the fact that this case basically punished a good deed, i.e. hugging a friend.

It's a question of degrees, to be sure, but one that to anyone using his or her brains for determining what's reasonable rather than what will keep their own *** covered would know.

 

[grydth]

Just a few weeks ago there was a thread about a school district proposing to hand out birth control to 11 year olds...... on the opposite end of the insanity spectrum we now have another school district punishing mere hugs.

Imagine the confusion of a poor girl transferring from one school to the other!

Last month there was a vicious fist fight near my daughter in the school hallway, started by a boy with well known "anger management problems".....Guess what - HE was back in school pdq..... well, it isn't as if he was hugging or drawing a picture with guns in it!

How did so many nuts get to be in charge of our school systems?

How can we expect any respect for authority when this is what they grow up with. As college students we used to say ' ***holes are in control everywhere'....... it would appear things have come full circle.

 

[Big Don]

Can we get any crazier? Well we could lock down a whole school due to ONE 22 caliber round being found on a sidewalk... http://www.wwmt.com/news/school_1344668___article.html/lockdown_plainwell.html

 

[TheOriginalName]

All i can say is it sounds like someone could use a hug.....


!!BIG VIRTUAL HUGS TO EVERYONE ON MARTIALTALK.COM!!

 

[grydth]

You probably should have checked forum policy first........

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

The thing about this case is that the relationship--whether it was two friends or a dating couple--isn't what's being punished, but the act of hugging. Whether the hug's between a boyfriend and girlfriend or two friends is pretty irrelevant according to the enforced rules.

The issue is that the zero-tolerance nature of the rule is taking a legitimate concern (students using school property as a make-out point) and pushing to an extreme point of ridiculousness (students aren't allowed to touch each other, even in a purely platonic, friendly manner.) Plus the fact that this case basically punished a good deed, i.e. hugging a friend.

It's a question of degrees, to be sure, but one that to anyone using his or her brains for determining what's reasonable rather than what will keep their own *** covered would know.

That's exactly my point. In punishing one relationship over the other, this leaves the administration open to liability, say for some type of discrimination. But punish the act across the board, and there is no liability.

Make the claim that one is reasonable or unreasonable, but from a liabilty standpoint in our extremely litigious society, one can understand the point of view of the administrators, lacking in flexibility though it does.

I just want to say, I agree that suspending someone for hugging a friend is ridiculous, but this is the society that we (using the word generally) helped to create.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Just a few weeks ago there was a thread about a school district proposing to hand out birth control to 11 year olds...... on the opposite end of the insanity spectrum we now have another school district punishing mere hugs.

Imagine the confusion of a poor girl transferring from one school to the other!

Last month there was a vicious fist fight near my daughter in the school hallway, started by a boy with well known "anger management problems".....Guess what - HE was back in school pdq..... well, it isn't as if he was hugging or drawing a picture with guns in it!

This is exactly what I mean. It's ludicrous and hypocritical.

 

[MJS]

Can we get any crazier? Well we could lock down a whole school due to ONE 22 caliber round being found on a sidewalk... http://www.wwmt.com/news/school_1344668___article.html/lockdown_plainwell.html

It does sound like a bit much, but, given all of the shootings, I can probably justify them doing that. Had they didn't and something did happen, imagine the heat the school admin. would've taken?

 

[CuongNhuka]

!!BIG VIRTUAL HUGS TO EVERYONE ON MARTIALTALK.COM!!

-Huggs in return-

 

[DArnold]

Whilst I agree this is a flagrant disregard for the basest levels of common sense, I'm not so sure that folks who are not in or near the jurisdiction of the said superintendent should flood the dumb-*** with emails. There is a fine line in letting your opinion be made known and harassing...I'm not saying don't, but if it's that important one might think of getting a physical address and mailing a hard copy letter to him.

Emails can be ignored, but a pile of business sized envelopes in your mailbox saying the same thing..."you are a flaming moron..." keep better accountability. Just a thought.

Stupidity should be painful

 

[kaizasosei]

Stupidity should be painful

it is.


i wrote this:

i don't know the exact details but this story disgusts me. i feel it is wrong and unjust..
i will often think back to this example.

this is the kindof stuff which is so contrary to the idea of being free.
whoever is engaging in these absoulutely childish forms of punishment is completely igonorant in my eyes. i hope that those in question realize the scope of their actions...
i don't wish them any blessings. it sickens me to imagine there is not some earthly authority that can police such unjust actions. i trust however that such actions by the very nature of their reason, are that which will bring down the guilty individuals. children are holy for crying out loud. children should not be demoralized or diciplined in such ways. i know this from personal experience.

i am guessing that those individuals that conspire against a child, are doing so because they are truly powerless and cannot control the child in a humane way. like i said, small people- to the point of being called sick or even evil though that may sound a bit heavy, one would be surprised...
maybe it is the superintendant himself that needs to grow up. watch some movies, read some books, open your mind..abstain from your own whoredom and needless aggression. maybe then everyone will feel better.




good luck everyone...

 

[Cirdan]

Bulletproof backpacks and strict zero tolerance against hugging.. how heartwarming.

MORONS!