Can Students Fail Tests?

[BrandiJo]

My first inst would fail students atleast once before they reached black belt. I never got that high with him, but my best friend did. She says she learned alot from failing and he clames that it does a student good to be humbled... personaly i dont understand setting a student up like that.
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[Shotochem]

I failed my first BB test. Long story I won't rehash it.

I learned more that day than the previous year. It was more than just technical skill they were after.
I am a much better MA today than I was back then. I never did retest. I kept training with that organization for a couple of years and have sinced moved on. I declined every time they asked me to grade. For me it no longer mattered. I Trained 4 classes a week for 7 years straight and at home as well. They couldn't respect the fact that to me it was never about a belt and that I never wanted to grade in the first place. I never had any fears of retesting. It just didn't seem to matter as much to me.

I started all over again in another art (Kempo). The sheer joy and pleasure of training a new system as a whitebelt again was strangely undescribeable. It was fun and enjoyable again. I have graded a few times in this atr already but I no longer feel any pressure or desire for rank. I have also been attending assorted seminars in other styles to broaden my horizons and keep myself amused.

Am I a heretic? Am I still a real MA? Or maybe, this is what it's reall all about.

-Marc-

 

[Grenadier]

I've failed two exams in my time, each in a different style.

My teachers thought I was ready, and I certainly thought I was ready, but since the performances that I gave those days did not meet the standards, I did not pass. Of course I was upset, but life moves on, and the last thing I'm going to do is curl up into a blubbering ball of misery for the rest of my life.

This is the same way I see it with other students, as I strongly agree with Kacey. A student who has no chance of passing an exam will simply not be given an exam form. Whether this is due to lack of preparation, or unfortunate circumstances (injuries, etc), it matters not.

Also, a student who has not trained consistently, with an acceptable level of intensity, will not be allowed to take the exam, even if he knows all of the material. The exams actually begin from the moment after the student has received the belt that he is wearing, and each student is evaluated throughout the quarter.

There are some students who try to get away with as little effort as possible, and then crank it up when test time rolls around. Most of the time, I don't bother giving them exam forms, and will tell them specifically, that they need to keep "cranking it up" on a regular basis, and not just for a week.

Yes, there are some students who might be better served by letting them take the exam at the more advanced ranks, since there's so much material, that they cannot possibly do well just by cramming. This would teach them a lesson about slacking off, but it would also be an insult to those taking the exam, since those folks earned the right to be there by their hard work.

Unfortunately, even good students can have a disruptive moment in their trains of thought. However, if they are good students, then they should use the failure of an exam as a powerful motivational tool, and come out even stronger than before.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

In IRT training is the major test! I mean whenever a student is training they are being tested right from the get go. Tested to see if I want them as a student, if they want to train, if they can perform the techniques, and so on. The formal test is more of a chance to bond and train and explore new directions in their training. Test's are done on an individual basis though so it is quite different than a mass testing and quite time consuming. (two to three hours for the first test) Could someone fail? Maybe if they did not show up or failed to perform with heart! Technique wise probably not as they will be far advanced in the technical area before I would allow them to test.

 

[The Kidd]

I would have to agree with the majority, as teachers we should never set a student up to fail. If they are not ready or are borderline then they should never receive a testing form. Could someone be ready and then blow it on testing day? Sure but that should be a rarity and handled with dignity, not a regular occurance and handled as a right of passage.

 

[searcher]

If there weren't a chance of failure it wouldn't be a test.

That is it in a nutshell. BTW-I have had students fail and most of them never miss a single thing on tests after they fail one.

 

[jdinca]

I have a student who has tested for his blue belt 3 times. He's the first student I've ever had that failed a test. He'll be on fire in his lessons but then something will crop up in the test that prevents him from passing. I won't let him test again until I'm positive he can pass.

It's okay for a student to fail a test. We don't let it happen in the beginner ranks but once a student has achieved, oh say purple belt, there are times where they may not pass a test. What matters is how it's handled. If it's done in a positive, supportive manner, it can be a great learning experience. If not, it can demoralize and student and the can soon be gone.

 

[matt.m]

Purple belt -3rd gup is the 1st major belt in MSK:HKD. I know that on one occasion that the whole group testing failed and had to retake 2 weeks later.

 

[bydand]

The last couple of schools I've had the pleasure of training in didn't have formal "tests", the testing was done every week, every training day. Attitude, skills, participation in classes, general overall performance, was looked at and taken into consideration. When the instructors were satisfied you met the skill level expected at a certian rank, and all the other peices fell into place, you were asked to prepare a Demo. Never called it a test, but you were expected to do a good demo and do it in front of not only our dojo, but friends and family members of all the students who were "going up". Plus now that there are two schools close to each other, we get a lot of students, and instructors from the other school coming over to watch and encourage us, as we do them for their demos. Personally I think it is more stressful than a regular test because you know what is expected, and the last thing you want to do is goof-up and disappoint the instructor. After all he has the confidence that you have the skills for the new belt level, and is excited for you to be able show others your progression in the art. My wife is preparing for her first "Demo" the middle of next month and I can assure you, she has given much thought to what she wants to do and we have been practicing a LOT lately because she wants it to be "perfect". I know she has the skills, the Instructor knows she has the skills, the other students know she has the skills, but this is a way for HER to know she has aquired the skills.

Never seen a student "fail", but have seen them freeze up and forget what was next. A gentle reminder from an instructor and some kind words and they always calm down and finish their demo, usually with lots of cheering from the crowd, their fellow classmates, and also from the front of the dojo and the instructors.


P.S. I'm darn proud of her too!

 

[bigkicks]

If there weren't a chance of failure it wouldn't be a test.

i belive tellner best.

we have failed students before, but also we have never placed a student in front of a testing commitee that we knew wasn't fully capable of passing. if the student frezzes up, chokes, or forgets his/her katas, it is up to the instructor to pass, fail, and/or re-test. I will say that in our TSD school their are no re-test for 6 months to a year if you fail in the 3rd-1st dan area. any belt below that its an option that we reserve to fail or re-test.

Stuff happens all the time, weather it be mentally or physically. Bottom line is when your testing it is all you up their, your mind should be free and clear of all thoughts except the one at hand. if prepare well enough failure will never be a result.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I am jumping into this blnd after reading the first post.

YES I have failed students on their tests. I have failed them because: they pulled mental blanks
not been able to give me basic fist day information that we repeat every day
had no clue whatthey hell they where supposed to do
not been able to tell me the first line of our code
not known who my instructor was
not knowing the name of the school
thinking they could just do whatever and I would accept it as correct
because they gave up or did not have the desire to complet the warm up excersises
because they acted like my school and the test was a playground for kindergarden children not an adult testing

Yes I have failed a few and have no trouble failing more. I require they know and are able to preform the material I test them on and I expect them to do so with a persaonal pride in what they do

I have also tested a student and awarded them the same rank as they already had because they never could remember to sign in with that rank they had already tested and passed

 

[kachi]

I had to exsplore a few ideas such as A. Stop the test and have her test again at a later date B. Continue testing and let her,hopefully, workout the jitters C. Pass her, but as a honory purple belt, and have her re-test for that portion she had problems with.

When I went for my shodan-ho in November, there was 2 of us attempting it and a bit over 3/4 of the way through the other person passed out (it was very hot and it's a very very rigorous test). I passed and got my belt and she was made an honory shodan-ho and had to take the bit of the test she missed a few weeks later.

And I've only ever seen 2 people fail, who were doing great up until the test when I suppose the nerves kicked in and they just stuffed up way to much to be given their belt. One of them dropped out after that (bit of a blow to the confidence I guess) and the other continued and got their belt 6 months later.

 

[tellner]

There are many different sorts of test. There are tests which confirm a student's knowledge. There are tests which teach. There are tests which inspire confidence. There are tests which weed out. There are tests which push a student beyond what he or she has done before. The standards of success and failure and the desired outcome on the part of the tester depend on what sort of test it is.

"One hundred men will test today. Just three will wear the Green Beret," is a lot different than a test which is actually an initiation ceremony into a new level. The standards will be different. The material will be different. The fraction of people who fail will be different.

In a strange way I'm partial to testing more than I am to kyu/dan ranks or any of the variations. Rank has its place in a huge organization. In one as small as what I'm involved in it is pretty worthless except for the distinction between the guy in front of the class and the guys taking the class. On the other hand tests can be very useful. Someone may perform flawlessly in the familiar comfort zone of class. Making him put something on the line in a higher stress situation is useful, particularly if the test makes him do something which he has never done before, something which you think he has a reasonable chance of succeeding at. It's just another aspect of "live training".

 

[ares]

I feel most students have problems because they don't truely believe that they know all that they should. If you are confident in your training, then you should be able to show it when testing. My Shihan has us do forms, then tells other students to grab guns, knives and clubs. He then tells the attackers what to attack (grab or weapons) and the testing student must properly do the technique. Some students know the material, but when it comes down to rapid fire attacks they mentally break down and forget. If you know your stuff and are just having problems you get a half belt(yellow/orange. orange/purple). He will give you some time to work out your problems and he test you again. If a student fails because of nerves then you can't promote. They know they were nervous and will work to improve it for next time and be better students for it.

 

[Kempo/wingchun dummy]

I failed my brown belt test the first time because i was unprepared and had an unrealistic view of my own abilities compared to the adults. as a teen i really hadn't thought about the differences between the kids programs the chain school was pushing and what the grown ups were doing. the instructors were poor teachers and allowed me to test and get beat up and hurt physicaly and emotionally. The owner and master realized what was going on, stopped the abuse( they were beating the poop out of me) and convinced me to train harder and test again. I waited till the same group of people were testing again and sought revenge. I had become as big a jerk as them. I passed, then quit, then found an amazing teacher who helped me overcome my anger and helped me to grow as person. i don't test people who aren't ready and i have had to fail exactly
two, but if you lay the ground work of understanding, friendship, compassion and truthfullness they will be dissapointed but determined to do better because they love what they are doing. anyways thats my experiance. a bit extreme but i've learned quite a bit about my self some good some bad, but even with my own personal experence i felt absoulutly sick inside at having to fail them (they're my students i love them!) but they totally sucked on that particular day, on stuff that they could do any other day,but that most important one. Sometimes people just screw up bad for whatever reason but if you can't do it when you most need to then what's the point? i"ll shut up now

 

[Anti-Theory]

My Sifu never failed me on any of my tests, but I know some of the students who have failed his test. Sometimes at the very start of the test if it seems like you're really nervous and are making lots of mistakes he'll tell you to stop and won't charge you for the terting. There are also parts where you can instantly fail if you do not perform the technique correctly or too slowly. For example, dropping your staff during your test would get you an F grade and you would have to re-take it later.

 

[fnorfurfoot]

I am curious to know if the instructors here charge testing fees and if so, if you were to fail a student, do they have to pay the fee again to re-test?

 

[Blindside]

No testing fees here.

 

[Kacey]

I am curious to know if the instructors here charge testing fees and if so, if you were to fail a student, do they have to pay the fee again to re-test?

Students who fail tests are always retested free, at least in my association.

 

[charyuop]

As a student I wouldn't find imbarassing or humiliating failing a test. Of course everyone is different, but that is my position.
MA is not math, if I forget something I can open a book and check what I forgot. When you need to use MA is a one time chance. If you fail in the moment you need MA you don't say ok let's redo it, you just get beaten up or killed in the worst case scenario.
Thinking that the being nervous is an excuse is not enough. When I (hopefully never) need to use MA, I will probably be nervous, scared, full of adrenaline and who knows what else.
Failing a test would show me my limit or problems and will give me something to work on, that can be being more natural movements, memorizing better techniques or learning to face my nervous/fears problems better.

Just my 2 cents...