Hello. I've trained for two years under my grandmaster and his students. Sometimes I go online to study new forms. I have noticed that I can't seem to find many videos in which the practitioner is NOT bouncing up and down after every movement in his form. Nobody I train with ever does this during forms. My boyfriend trains in Shotokan and no one in his school does this either. Is this a very common thing and is there logic behind it? What are you thoughts. Thanks!
Bouncing in Poomsae
- Thread starter wendyh
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TrueJim
Master Black Belt
In Kukkiwon/WTF taekwondo, there's no bouncing...you're supposed to keep your head-height level throughout the form.
However, some styles of ITF Chang Hon taekwondo do bounce...this is called the "sine wave." You can read about it here: Taekwondo Sine Wave - Taekwondo Wiki
However, some styles of ITF Chang Hon taekwondo do bounce...this is called the "sine wave." You can read about it here: Taekwondo Sine Wave - Taekwondo Wiki
If you're seeing a ton of bouncing, you're probably looking up Chang Hon forms as performed by ITF practitioners. The sine wave was introduced by General Choi in the mid- to late- 1970's. More correctly, I should say that's when I was first introduced to it. I'm sure it took a few years to spread...The presence or lack of sine wave in forms (commonly called "tul", not poomsae in Chang Hon systems) is an indicator of when a particular branch split off from the ITF.
Systems using the Palgwae, Taegeuk Songam or Pinan forms do not typically use sine wave movement.
Systems using the Palgwae, Taegeuk Songam or Pinan forms do not typically use sine wave movement.
I haven't trained in TKD for some time, my instructor's TKD school is now in Japan. (I know, Japan, go figure....the commute is a real beech 
) but the guys I always loved to fight were the bouncers. Just time the bounce - it was like ice cream on Christmas morning.
) but the guys I always loved to fight were the bouncers. Just time the bounce - it was like ice cream on Christmas morning.
When your opponent goes up, he has to come down. When a lion tries to attack a deer, you just don't see that lion bounces up and down before it's attack.
TrueJim
Master Black Belt
You raise a good point Wendy, one that I've never much thought about before. The Palgwae forms are not part of General Choi's "sine wave" ...and yet we do tend to see a lot of bouncing in the Palgwae forms in the videos on YourTube.
The best videos for the Palgwae forms that I've been able to find on YouTube are from "Master Park's Black Belt America" and they are a bit bouncy. Master Park s Black Belt America - YouTube I've always assumed that the person in the video is intentionally slowing-down and exaggerating the movements in order to make the movements clearer. (Just like people who make "sine wave" videos often exaggerate the sine wave in order to make it clearer.) But maybe that school actually teaches that bounciness. The school my son and I attend also does Palgwae forms (in addition to the Taegeuk forms) and we're not taught to bounce at all.
In my TKD days we did the Chang Hon forms without the Sine Wave. More Hip twist. Frankly it looked a lot more like Karate. First time I visited a school and they were bouncing around and the teacher told me in no uncertain terms that if I wasn't bouncing I was doing it wrong, well it kind of put me off TKD. It wasn't the only thing but may have been the straw that broke the camels back.
Hapkido was always a better fit for me...
Hapkido was always a better fit for me...
What have you been training in for two years? Why are you using unverified online training sources on the internet instead of relying on your grandmaster -- the qualifed teacher you are paying to teach you? Have you asked your grandmaster for the correct videos of whatever style he is teaching?
The Kukkiwon no longer recognizes Palgwe forms as officia poomsae in Kukki style taekwondo, but here are the forms as taught in the past by Grandmaster Lee Kyu Hyun, a former chairman of the Kukkiwon's academic committee and former president of the Kukkiwon's World Taekwondo Academy. Note, he is not to be confused with GM Lee Kyu Hyung, former president of the Kukkiwon and also another great poomsae teacher. The pacing of the poomsae in the videos is done at instruction pace. Often people will look at the videos and mistakenly always perform the poomsae at that pace -- complete with the halting which the instructor is making for clarity.
Gwai Lo Dan
3rd Black Belt
I've never studied Palge forms, but it's interesting to me that Palge il jang is very similar to what we callled Kibon Poomsae. The clip below isn't from my school, but that's the form we did.
In terms of the question of boucing, my current master always tells me that I bounce too much. But it seems more natural to me to go down if I go from a shorter stance to a punch + longer stance.
In terms of the question of boucing, my current master always tells me that I bounce too much. But it seems more natural to me to go down if I go from a shorter stance to a punch + longer stance.
Kibon (or kicho) just means "basic" forms. We teach 6 of them. The kicho forms are all very similar, and since moving from the kicho forms to the palgwae is a baby step, taken at a very low level, I suspect that the siimilarity is intentional.
I'm at work right now, so I can't see the video you posted, but I'll look at it when I am able.
The video you posted is kicho 1, the first of 6 we teach. Students must learn this form before they're allowed to wear a dobak.
I assume this person is performing the form correctly by the standards of his school, but not by ours.
There is waaayyyyyy too much bouncy bouncy.
He opens his hands during chambers, rather than maintaining a tight fist.
He's looking around, not maintaining focus on his targets.
His punches are too high. Middle punches should be aimed at the solar plexus.
He's wearing a 3rd Dan belt, but apparently can't tie it evenly.
Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.
TrueJim
Master Black Belt
I'd be interested to know what the 6 kicho forms are that you teach. At the school my son and I attend, they teach 3 kicho ("kibon") forms, all variations essentially of Hwang Kee's kicho hyeong (il bu, ee bu, and sam bu). Do you use something like for your first three? And then what do you do for the next three?
It's called "fire" strategy, one of many strategies used in MA.
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