Big Muscles = Big Damage or what?

[silatman]

Whilst training gunting strikes with a guda a question arose about the differences between body shapes and more specifically muscle density.

We were doing a bicep strike with the punio of the guda at the time and wondered if you would cause more damage hitting a very muscular bicep such as someone would have if they really got stuck into the weights or whether a bicep that was very sinuous would have more pain and/or destruction caused due to the ability to crush the muscle into the bone.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

 

[Adept]

A larger muscle will absorb the impact from the blow over a larger area, resulting in less damage over-all.

 

[terryl965]

A larger muscle will absorb the impact from the blow over a larger area, resulting in less damage over-all.

I would agree with this statement.
Terry

 

[silatman]

I would agree with this as a very general statement but as I stated we were training with a guda at the time.

A guda is a short rattan stick that is less than an inch thick and the same lenght of the distance from your elbow to your fingertips.
Using this weapon in the way that we were, the surface area that you are striking with is very small as you are using the end of the weapon and not the blade to impact with.

A large muscle that is very dense, as a body builder might have, is full of blood and if you strike it with a solid impliment with a small surface area wouldn't it behave like the women wearing high heels v's flat soles, that is bleed and bleed alot causing the arm to be useless. I dont know whether it would be able to wash off the blow over a large area purely because of the concentration of force that was applied in the first place.
The sinuous muscle on the other hand doesnt carry the quantity of blood as the large muscle does and as such wouldnt bleed as much but it would be more likely to be crushed against the bone and so maybe it would suffer more damage as a result of being squeezed between two solid objects, and as I have said it is subject to a large force being applied to a small area.

I havent made up my mind as to which I think would have more damage subjected to it but I do think that there is more to consider than the simple statement that a big muscle can wash off a big hit in this circumstance.

 

[Brother John]

A larger muscle will absorb the impact from the blow over a larger area, resulting in less damage over-all.

True
ALSO: a well developed muscle will have a much greater level of density, also adding to their ability to disipate the force.

Your Brother
John

 

[Xue Sheng]

Think about the muscles used to punch.
The Triceps have more to do with it.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

take a guy with really big biceps.....give him a whack, then do the same thing to a 130lb guy........see who falls down crying.

 

[Ciprian Vali]

It all depends on what is going on. The stronger the muscle, the more potential it has for speed and power. However, Biceps that are very large can be a disadvantage when punching as a punch should not involve the bicep, but rather the hand, forearm, tricep, and deltoids. People with larger biceps tend to want to use those biceps instead of the triceps, and this makes their punches weaker, and easier to see and counter.

 

[Adept]

A large muscle that is very dense, as a body builder might have, is full of blood and if you strike it with a solid impliment with a small surface area wouldn't it behave like the women wearing high heels v's flat soles, that is bleed and bleed alot causing the arm to be useless. I dont know whether it would be able to wash off the blow over a large area purely because of the concentration of force that was applied in the first place.
The sinuous muscle on the other hand doesnt carry the quantity of blood as the large muscle does and as such wouldnt bleed as much but it would be more likely to be crushed against the bone and so maybe it would suffer more damage as a result of being squeezed between two solid objects, and as I have said it is subject to a large force being applied to a small area.

Both muscles will have the same volume of blood vessels, and both will absorb the same amount of energy from the blow. The smaller muscle will absorb it over a smaller area, resulting in more damage.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Both muscles will have the same volume of blood vessels, and both will absorb the same amount of energy from the blow. The smaller muscle will absorb it over a smaller area, resulting in more damage.

I'm trying hard to make sense of this.

a large bicep has the same vascularity, amount of blood, but less density than a smaller bicep?

I can see this turning into a physiology lesson.

 

[Ciprian Vali]

.

Vascularity (appearance of veins in the arms, chest, etc) is a complete function of body fat percentage and muscle mass content (more muscle/less fat = greater vascularity). In fact, when I had a 43 inch waist and 20%+ body fat, I had no veins showing in my arms, chest, etc. As I lowered my body fat percentage into single digit levels, I noticed the appearance of veins in my forearms, chest, biceps, etc. As body fat decreases, the space between skin and muscle decreases, thus extreme vascularity become completely visible. More muscle also aids in this process, as additional nutrients are needed due to the larger muscle groups, and thus the veins appear more pronounced.

 

[Adept]

I'm trying hard to make sense of this.

a large bicep has the same vascularity, amount of blood, but less density than a smaller bicep?

I can see this turning into a physiology lesson.

This is my understanding, and could well be wrong so take it with a grain of salt.

A large muscle has the same number of cells as a small muscle, but those cells are larger. The number of blood vessels remains constant regardless of the muscle size, but will need to transport more blood for a larger muscle.

In terms of absorbing damage, you can think of a muscle as a rubber pad, or a sponge. The thicker and larger it is, the more it absorbs before that damage is carried over into bones or blood vessels.

 

[Ciprian Vali]

This is my understanding, and could well be wrong so take it with a grain of salt.

A large muscle has the same number of cells as a small muscle, but those cells are larger. The number of blood vessels remains constant regardless of the muscle size, but will need to transport more blood for a larger muscle.

In terms of absorbing damage, you can think of a muscle as a rubber pad, or a sponge. The thicker and larger it is, the more it absorbs before that damage is carried over into bones or blood vessels.

It's my understanding that as a muscle increases in size, it requires more oxygen, and therefore the size of the blood vessels have to expand to accomodate the increased oxygen intake.

 

[DeLamar.J]

Whilst training gunting strikes with a guda a question arose about the differences between body shapes and more specifically muscle density.

We were doing a bicep strike with the punio of the guda at the time and wondered if you would cause more damage hitting a very muscular bicep such as someone would have if they really got stuck into the weights or whether a bicep that was very sinuous would have more pain and/or destruction caused due to the ability to crush the muscle into the bone.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

Most anyone can condition their body to take hits, no matter if they look like Arnold or not. Bruce Lee was not much over 100lbs, and he was conditioned very well.

 

[Adept]

It's my understanding that as a muscle increases in size, it requires more oxygen, and therefore the size of the blood vessels have to expand to accomodate the increased oxygen intake.

Yes. But you still only have the same number of vessels.

 

[Ciprian Vali]

Yes. But you still only have the same number of vessels.

I know. I think i misread your post

 

[Ram]

Why Bruce Lee Turned to Weight Training


The following material has been excerpted from the Ohara Publications Inc. book Bruce Lee: The Incomparable Fighter, authored by M. Uyehara, who was a close friend of the late martial artist.
--Editor
Bruce Lee never bragged about his muscular body, but he was proud of it, especially of his highly developed abdominal muscles. When Bruce wore loose clothing, he looked like a normally built guy. But underneath the clothing, he was a man with extraordinary muscles.
"I've seen many muscular bodybuilders," one of his fans said, "but never like Bruce. He is built perfectly, not bulky. He has muscles on top of muscles, yet he moves with the finesse of a ballet dancer. Those men with bulky muscles can't move like that; they are too tight and clumsy."
Fred Weintraub, the producer of Enter The Dragon, gave this description of Bruce: "...His body never had an inch of fat; it was pure muscle, like steel."
Bruce had to work hard to develop those muscles. "l used to have a big, soft belly," he explained. "My stomach protruded and I looked terrible for a young guy. I decided to streamline my waist."
From that revelation, Bruce took up weight training. He was always a bundle of energy. He was like a small kid who would never tire. If he had his mind set to do something, nothing could have stopped him.
He combined weight training with his regular workout. He spent as much as four hours in his garage, hardly taking a break, as he worked on the equipment, built by his students to his specifications. He designed his weight-training workout to avoid bulky muscles that might interfere with his performance. For instance, he did not want muscles that restricted the movement of his elbows.
"You must tuck your elbows in quickly when a blow is directed to your midsection," he explained. "Some bodybuilders are so bulky that they have no way to defend the solar plexus area with efficiency. They can't cover the area with their elbows, so when they use another method to protect it, they leave other parts of their body open. Weight training is supposed to help you, not screw you.
Bruce concentrated heavily on his abdominal muscles because he believed that the body is "the biggest target and the least mobile. The more muscles you have around your abdomen, the more blows it can take." Bruce's body was covered with ripples of muscles. Broad-shouldered and narrow-waisted, he was the envy of even bodybuilders. To Bruce, training was a full-time job. Even while watching television, he would be in motion. He would do his sit-ups very slowly, his body descending slower than ascending. "You'll get more benefit by doing them slowly," he said. "It's not the number of repetitions, but the way it's done."
When he wasn't doing sit-ups, he would be squeezing a rubber ball or pumping a pair of dumbbells. Desiring accolades, many times he would ask a friend or acquaintance to place a hand on his abdomen or leg to "feel my stomach muscles" or "feel how hard my legs are."
Bruce wasn't particular about what he ate. He avoided cigarettes, wine and liquor, but never refused a cup of hot tea. He would eat anything: pork, chicken, fish, beef, vegetables. His favorite dishes were Chinese and Japanese.
Although he was small man, 5-foot-7 and 135 pounds, he had a voracious appetite. In a restaurant, he always ordered an additional plate of food for himself- one serving was not enough. He also drank a lot of water, probably because he perspired so much. Bruce took a daily amount of vitamin pills, apparently influenced by the body-building magazine he subscribed to. He prided himself on being healthy.

From:http://www.allbrucelee.com/article/why_bruce_lee_turned_to_weight_t.htm

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[Ram]

I would love to see someone punch Markus Ruhl in the bicep tring to injure it LoL.:whip:

 

[Ram]

Of course lets not forget Bob Sapp.

 

[Josh Oakley]

For the strike you're talking about, I think it depends on a number of issues. There was a combination in Kung Fu San Soo that we learn where someone would punch, and we would block, forearm strike the bicep, then cros-hand hammer to the chin. The end result is the guy's passed out, or if he's conscious, he's in a lot of pain, because his jaw's dislocated, and his bicep's torn and bleeding internally.

Whether the bicep is large or small wasn't so much the issue. What mattered was how wellyou deliver the technique. If done properly, you cause massive damage to the bicep, whether the muscle is large or small. Big bicep or small bicep, the point is that you disable that bicep 100%. It also mattered whether the bicep was flexed or not. A flexed bicep, large or small, can take a lot more damage than a relaxed bicep.