BEST MMA fighter of all time?

[Champ-Pain]

I realize that MMA is a relatively new sport... Who do you consider to be the BEST ever MMA fighter of all time? Here are some choices - but you can name your own if it's not on the list.

1) the Natural - Randy Couture
2) Royce Gracie
3) the Spider - Anderson Silva
4) Rush - GSP
5) the Prodigy - B.J. Penn

 

[sfs982000]

1. GSP
2. Randy Couture
3. Anderson Silva
4. Royce Gracie
5. Brock Lesner

 

[Steve]

1. Fedor Emelianenko
2: GSP
3: Anderson Silva
4: Shinya Aoki
5: Randy Couture

Up and Comer: Jason Jones.

 

[OzPaul]

1.) Fedor Emelianenko
2.) Mirko Cro Cop
3.) Anderson Silva
4.) BJ Penn
5.) Bas Rutten

 

[Steve]

1.) Fedor Emelianenko
2.) Mirko Cro Cop
3.) Anderson Silva
4.) BJ Penn
5.) Bas Rutten

Cro Cop? Hmmm... I can maybe cede BJ Penn... but Cro Cop? He's top... 10 heavy weights maybe... top 15 all time... maybe... but number 2?

 

[OzPaul]

I thought we were going off who our favourites are... and i like Mirko. I can't create 1 to 5 list of the greatest though as i'm biased. Some notable mentions are of course, Randy, Chuck, Royce, GSP and Minowaman

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

the sport is to damn young to have a best of all time list yet.
the sport is still evolving, trainers and fighters are still experimenting with things, the fighter base is still relatively small.
no there is no best mma fighter of all time list yet..
plenty of great fighters, but no list

 

[punisher73]

Agreed, I wouldn't put Royce Gracie on the list of all time great MMA fighters because he wasn't an MMA fighter. He was a GJJ stylist and only used that when everyone else was also just using one style. Royce hasn't really fought an MMA fighter except for Hughes and he got pounded by him, in fact, Royce's only wins have been against guys that fought only one style (Sakuraba was a catch wrestler, whom Royce beat the second time around, but then tested positive for steriods for that fight).

Was he a pioneer for the sport? ABSOLUTELY! Just not an all time great for MMA.

Some of the other ones fall into that category as well, they were in the sport when it was too young and are now too old to really compete at the top of the pack now. Should they be hall of famers? Yep. In fact, they really developed how many people approached the game.

For example,

Royce Gracie: Need for the ground game/BJJ
Dan Severn: Started the ground and pound, which lead many wrestlers to the sport
Randy Couture: Wrestling clinch game & dirty boxing
Maurice Smith: Brought back successful striking/kicking to the sport
Chuck Liddell: Takedown defense and standing back up to strike

The list can go on and on, they weren't the only ones that used those, but really brought those to the forefront that changed the way people approached it as they integrated skill sets.

 

[Tez3]

the sport is to damn young to have a best of all time list yet.
the sport is still evolving, trainers and fighters are still experimenting with things, the fighter base is still relatively small.
no there is no best mma fighter of all time list yet..
plenty of great fighters, but no list

Exactly!
You can't base it all on one promotion either as many people didn't watch Pride when it was at it's best and have only come to the sport since the UFC got bigger. They don't watch the fights in other countries so don't know how MMA is evolving other than in the UFC. When MMA is better known globally and competitions between countries becomes common then we will start seeing who is shaping up to become candidates for 'best MMA fighter of all time'

 

[Champ-Pain]

1. GSP
2. Randy Couture
3. Anderson Silva
4. Royce Gracie
5. Brock Lesner

Brock Lesner? How about Cain Velasquez and Frank Mir? I think they both should rank ahead of Brock.

 

[punisher73]

Brock Lesner? How about Cain Velasquez and Frank Mir? I think they both should rank ahead of Brock.

Agree, Cain Velasquez has not had a single defense of his title yet. He is very new to the sport compared to many others, so only time will tell his place.

Brock Lesnar was beat down by Cain Velasquez. Lesnar has spent more time off with his illness that actively defending his title. Again, how he comes back and the rest of his career will determine his place.

 

[Tez3]

Brock Lesner? How about Cain Velasquez and Frank Mir? I think they both should rank ahead of Brock.

Frank Mir got smashed to pieces by Ian Freeman. Didn't have much to offer against Ian.

 

[Champ-Pain]

Frank Mir got smashed to pieces by Ian Freeman. Didn't have much to offer against Ian.

Yeah, a long time ago, without having trained properly for the fight. Different Mir than now.

 

[Tez3]

Yeah, a long time ago, without having trained properly for the fight. Different Mir than now.

Not that long ago and a 'great' fighter doesn't not train for a big fight, that's just an excuse for why he lost. I know Ian very well, he has good ground skills and very heavy hands, he beat Mir, no excuses.

 

[Champ-Pain]

Not that long ago and a 'great' fighter doesn't not train for a big fight, that's just an excuse for why he lost. I know Ian very well, he has good ground skills and very heavy hands, he beat Mir, no excuses.

I've seen him fight a few times. BIG brawler, not much of a stylist or technician. Mir didn't train for that fight, he was fat, outta shape, outta gas, slow, and way off on his timing. Ian was (just like your KBoxer friend) lucky to get a fight vs Mir at that time, otherwise, luck would not have played a roll...

... Ian did win that fight, but it would not happen again today, or any other day - for the rest of time.

 

[Tez3]

I've seen him fight a few times. BIG brawler, not much of a stylist or technician. Mir didn,t train for that fight, he was fat, outta shape, outta gas, slow, and way off on his timing, Ian was (just like your KBoxer friend) lucky to get a fight vs Mir at that time, otherwise, luck would not have played a roll.

What Kboxer friend?

Ian isn't a brawler, you know very little about him if you say that. Have you seen his fights in Russia for instance or his fights here, were you at the Mir v Freeman fight? Don't make excuses for Mir, he was lucky to get a fight in the UK, we didn't want him particularly.

 

[Champ-Pain]

What Kboxer friend? "LuckyKBoxer" it was in jest!

Ian isn't a brawler, you know very little about him if you say that. Have you seen his fights in Russia for instance or his fights here, were you at the Mir v Freeman fight? Don't make excuses for Mir, he was lucky to get a fight in the UK, we didn't want him particularly.

I have never seen him live, not in Russia or anywhere else. The few times I've seen him was on PPV at UFC events. Each time, he came out and brawled, throwing looping, wild, crazy punches - same as he did vs MIR.

Either way, I'm not making excuses for Mir, only pointing out that Mir has been the UFC heavy weight champion and is still a top contender. Where is Ian and what has he done for you lately?

Please, lets not fight back and forth about this - I believe we were just starting to appreciate each other. Lets move on - shall we?

BTW - You can have the last word on this - then it's over. Thanks

 

[elder999]

I realize that MMA is a relatively new sport... Who do you consider to be the BEST ever MMA fighter of all time? Here are some choices - but you can name your own if it's not on the list.

1) the Natural - Randy Couture
2) Royce Gracie
3) the Spider - Anderson Silva
4) Rush - GSP
5) the Prodigy - B.J. Penn

Dioxippus of Athens./

 

[Tez3]

I have never seen him live, not in Russia or anywhere else. The few times I've seen him was on PPV at UFC events. Each time, he came out and brawled, throwing looping, wild, crazy punches - same as he did vs MIR.

Either way, I'm not making excuses for Mir, only pointing out that Mir has been the UFC heavy weight champion and is still a top contender. Where is Ian and what has he done for you lately?

Please, lets not fight back and forth about this - I believe we were just starting to appreciate each other. Lets move on - shall we?

BTW - You can have the last word on this - then it's over. Thanks

I think we must have been watching different fights.

Where is Ian? he's retired, has a gym, trains fighters, runs seminars around the world, MCs, makes DVDs, television programmes and films. We take our fighters up to him and he comes down when he can. He's MCing at our next show ( pro shows btw, Bisping had his pro fight debut on ours) which is for charity, the Scot's Guard's welfare fund. Yeah, he's a mate, has been for over a decade.

 

[Steve]

Okay. Since Lucky and Tez are being spoilsports (tongue in cheek, guys), I'll go ahead and throw out some of the criteria for "best ever" in my opinion.

Before I do, though, I just want to say that what Fight Metric is now doing with the major events is AWESOME. While it will always be somewhat subjective, for guys (and gals) who are passionate about the sport, it will take the level of the conversation that much higher.

Now, before anyone gets uptight, this sight is starting with the major promotions, like Strikeforce, UFC, Dream and WEC. It's awesome and just going to get... errr... awesomer as time goes on.

For example. Here's Ian Freeman. And here's Frank Mir. If you look at the records and the quality of their opponents, Frank's got a clear edge with regards to impact on the sport. However, I wouldn't put him near the top 10 ever.

Again, this isn't quite ready for prime time, but I'm enjoying watching it grow.

So anyway... getting back to criteria. I'd go with the following (in no particular order):

1: Record
2: Quality of competition (who did they beat?)
3: Impact on the sport (in other words, were they so good at something that they changed the look of the sport).
4: Legacy

So, for example, Royce Gracie might not be able to compete with today's well rounded MMA'ist. But he was a pioneer in the sport, and was integral in shaping it.