Basics

[Rainman]

For the AKer's- what tools are you using to ensure that your basics are being done to achieve the best results?


:asian:

 

[brianhunter]

practice, practice, practice. And about 20 people yelling your doing it wrong/right! ~

 

[Rainman]

Good start... That is known as the 3rd person perspective or the third point of view.

:asian:

 

[AvPKenpo]

For myself, I repeat the basic many many times(hundreds-thousands whatever it takes) at an embrionic stage. After I feel comfortable with it, I start taking it to the next level, speeding it up with out breaking it down completely more of a mechanical or robotic state. Then once it has set in I can take it to the final level that being spontanious. Once I have achieved this level I then try to examine myself as closely as I can, by using mirrors or video to fine tune the basic. Often I see in myself I need to revert back to the mechanical stage to achieve precise movement in the basic.

Michael

 

[Rainman]

The 3rd person perspective is a concept- how about some Universal Laws and prinicples. Speed doesn't need to be saught it comes with economical movements and relaxation. Once the mechanical stage is left behind don't revisit it. Repitition is an ally but don't forget to use the tools that make AK practical, logical, and cognitive. Adding these ingrediants make it fun and it is fun to experience ease of movement and power no?



:asian:

 

[Roland]

..but how do you actually teach them, to make them effective?
How do vary them so they fit different situations and different people?
I agree with what has been said so far, but if you have someone doing the same punch over and over, they may, or may not get it down, then, they may or may not be doing it correctly, and they still may or may not know where or when to use it. Not slamming here, but I think we need to expand this a little more.
A man once said "Practice makes pernament, not perfect"!

:soapbox:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Roland

..but how do you actually teach them, to make them effective?
How do vary them so they fit different situations and different people?
I agree with what has been said so far, but if you have someone doing the same punch over and over, they may, or may not get it down, then, they may or may not be doing it correctly, and they still may or may not know where or when to use it. Not slamming here, but I think we need to expand this a little more.
A man once said "Practice makes pernament, not perfect"!

:soapbox:

Perfect practice makes perfect. So you are asking how to make perfect? You must give to get, give me one of the ideas you have to acheive this.
:shrug:

 

[Nightingale]

where and when to use a punch is an instructor issue: they should tell you/show you this.

how to do a punch correctly? what I've found to be effective is teach them proper technique, and once they've got it down and it really looks right, have them hit something, a focus bag, or a heavy bag. The body will make subtle adjustments to make the technique work. you can't really know if something is going to work til you try it.

 

[Rainman]

where and when to use a punch is an instructor issue: they should tell you/show you this

No. You can be coached into this but not shown or told unless a lot of time is spent in freestyle, etc and even then it will not be as fast if you were coached through the basics of this.

how to do a punch correctly? what I've found to be effective is teach them proper technique, and once they've got it down and it really looks right, have them hit something, a focus bag, or a heavy bag. The body will make subtle adjustments to make the technique work. you can't really know if something is going to work til you try it.

How do you get to proper technique... and what is "proper technique"?

 

[Seig]

One of the things I do with my people, and something I do myself, is taht when I have learned or am practicing a technique and feel that I have the transitions and flow down, I do the technique repeatedly in a fluid manner, almost Tai Chi like (No, I have not studied Tai Chi and am making a generalization, no offense meant if I am wrong). By doing any given technique this way, I am letting the muscles "retain and remember". It also removes the jerkiness form a technique as I do it faster and allows me to concentrate on my targets and distance.
:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

If your talking about basics being each individual movement executed from a horse stance? Your training stance is just that training. What we do in our class is pick one basic group each class let's say finger techniques. Pick an actual technique that may already have some finger movement in it and use it in application. Next figure out which ones aren't in a technique then go back to figure out what techniques can use an inserted finger technique. As I say inserted as long as it doesn't disrupt the flow of the technique then it is a good inserted move. I guess to easier sum it up take the basics then use it in application.
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Seig

One of the things I do with my people, and something I do myself, is taht when I have learned or am practicing a technique and feel that I have the transitions and flow down, I do the technique repeatedly in a fluid manner, almost Tai Chi like (No, I have not studied Tai Chi and am making a generalization, no offense meant if I am wrong). By doing any given technique this way, I am letting the muscles "retain and remember". It also removes the jerkiness form a technique as I do it faster and allows me to concentrate on my targets and distance.
:asian:

That is one of my best tools... relaxation. One thing you may want to consider is becoming heavy (exhale) for rooting and lighter (inhale) for moving. IF you have not done this already be patient, it takes other elements for this to manefest itself fully. Don't be afraid to read a tai chi book it may provide some ideas for you. The trick is finding where they already exist is the system.

:asian:

If your talking about basics being each individual
movement executed from a horse stance?

That is a form of isolation. Tell me this: is your teacher helping to make adjustmests as you go through these basics?

How about standing in a nuetral bow, guard up and delivering a thrusting reverse punch utilizing torque, momentum and gravatational marriage by pivoting into a forward bow at contact. Load this basic down with the tools of our trade.

:asian:

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Rainman

Once the mechanical stage is left behind don't revisit it. Repitition is an ally but don't forget to use the tools that make AK practical, logical, and cognitive. Adding these ingrediants make it fun and it is fun to experience ease of movement and power no?



:asian:

For myself I want to perfect my movement, so a lot of times I go back to basics (and techniques) and break them down again. This also helps when you teach. One thing that I try to remember when I teach I need to be able to teach & communicate the same thing several different ways. I.E. one student may not understand that the glass is half empty but they do understand that the glass is half full......poor example granted, but maybe this will help to bring the point across. I guess my reasoning is to make darn sure I am teaching it right, and if I cannot teach the basic correcty I must not know it well enough....LOL.

Michael

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Roland

..but how do you actually teach them, to make them effective?
How do vary them so they fit different situations and different people?
I agree with what has been said so far, but if you have someone doing the same punch over and over, they may, or may not get it down, then, they may or may not be doing it correctly, and they still may or may not know where or when to use it. Not slamming here, but I think we need to expand this a little more.
A man once said "Practice makes pernament, not perfect"!

:soapbox:

LOL.....I agree.........unfortunately each student is different..as an instructor I feel we need to be aware of how each student learns. One student learns best by example, another by explanation, another by trial and error, another by stepping them through it repeatedly, and yet another by drawing it out on a marker board, and some by threatening them.........JK. The instructor has to be able to teach several different ways. Maybe I am wrong........I still try though. LOL

Michael

 

[Rainman]

One student learns best by example, another by explanation, another by trial and error, another by stepping them through it repeatedly, and yet another by drawing it out on a marker board, and some by threatening them.........JK

These are stages in the learning process. Each time something new is learned a simular process takes place using all these steps aided by CTP.

For myself I want to perfect my movement, so a lot of times I go back to basics (and techniques) and break them down again.

Refinement is about using tools and they are concepts, theories, and principles. The Lowest Common Denominator of AK are the basics. Re-read the first post.

:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Rainman,
First your going to have to excuse me on some things I'm kind of slow at figuring out some of the things your talking about. I'm not quite sure I understand what your talking about as far as making adjustments in our training. My first initial thought was talking about points of reference during the embryonic stage of training. When in a horse stance picture the targets your planning to strike. My next thought was actually making adjustments from doing basics from a training stance then using it for application purpose. Anyways that's how I took your question. Yes we do the particular movements for application different obviously nothing is perfect, what works for you may not work for me or someone else for that matter.
Onto your next question. The horse is just a stance as well as the bows, or kneels. Our instructor has us do the basics from the neutral or forward bow stance as well. It all has a different feel when standing in different postures. I personally like the kneel stances. I pretty much try to use those stances as much as possible. There's my thoughts.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Rainman]

Jason,

You've always shown a positive attitude and I would have no problem explaining the same thing to you 20 times 20 different ways.

For Ak'ers the principles will eventually define your movements and what you can do with them. To load a basic will CPT will aid in refinement. Without looking in any books take the reverse punch I described earlier and load it down with the cpt's that you know of. It is an exercise worth your time... I will add to what you already know.

:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

Flow first & power later regarding basics. It is so hard for a student to "unlearn" something taught at an earlier level, especially when they have a little proficiency in another system. It is nice to slow it down and focus on detail. Then maybe some isometric power slow drills, utilizing training, neutral, and transitional stances. I am focusing primarily on first and second person perspectives using mirrors and direct verbal or physical correction.

Methods of execution vary, for an outward handsword we may explore a snapping vs thrusting, or ricocheting vs slicing, in the air, then against a bag. Then as soon as possible we add the use of three dimensions to generate greater power - rotating or counter-rotation, body momentum with a shuffle, and gravitational marriage with all the strikes.

Then slow it down again for precision, accuracy, and pinpointing, utilizing the correct weapon to the correct target - as you bring the speed back up again. Back to the bags or a partner with a focus mitt or kicking shield (I also use Muey Thai forarm sheilds), then to a partner actually attacking, slow and flow, then fast with power AND CONTROL.

This all seems pretty BASIC to me. Was this what you were looking for? Pretty punny, huh???

SOPHISTICATED BASICS have to start somewhere. My methodology remains fairly consistant. We may work rice lines across the room, circuit training on bags working a basic, then translate them into the technique I am teaching, or pull a basic I see problems with on tests, out of the technique. Work on it out of context, then put it back in context to see if there is any improvement. Strong basics are the heart of the system. Without them we would be a "slap art", heaven forbid. No matter how fast we go, isn't it better to hit with power on our primary strikes and be a little slower - than to strike blindingly fast with no effect or off target? Hopefully somewhere the two can come together in a synergistic strike that is more powerful than the sum of it's parts.

Michael B.,
UKS-Texas

 

[Rainman]

Works for me. I will note one exception and that would be that the heart of the art is CPT. You can only get so far without adding these elements. You yourself stated that being the primary difference between Tracy and EPAK.

:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

What does CPT stand for?


:asian: