Bare knuckle for self-defense?

Alan0354

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Bad Rutten is an expert with that palm strike. It is very effective. Nothing wrong with that. We were really just discussing whether it can be done(fist to face)without breaking the hand. I say it can because I have done it. Some people disagree with me, and to make their point, they suggest I am just talking falsely. If anyone reads the entirety of what I post, I said over and over just don’t strike the rounded parts of the skull. That’s where the hammer fist and palm strikes are useful.
I only join reading the first post and starting from my first post. I did not see hammer fist and palm strikes, it must be before I join in. Hammer fist is good, but need to be closer than punching. But you don't worry about breaking knuckles. I taught my grand daughter using hammer fist. For close distance, I rather use elbows and knees.

Palm strikes is questionable.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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First all, I am not running you down, we are all too old for that already. You are NOT reading my post. I said do NOT assume anyone can land a perfect punch at the perfect spot. NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOU ARE, there's always a faster person. All I am saying is toughen up the knuckles as insurance in case one miss and hit the forehead resulting in breaking the knuckles.

I did not say I am fast, I am slow. I did post a video of punching and kicking heavy bag, nothing to write home about. I am slow, so I practice in case I miss and hit the forehead. It's a good insurance.

Honestly, I treat kick boxing as aerobics only. I am too old to learn the newer and much more effective fighting skill like BJJ, MMA. I live in N Calif in the bayarea, but what is the point of getting together on this. If I have the body, I would much rather find a BJJ school to work on it instead of talking about who punch harder and faster!!! But I am too old and too injured for any of that. I just do my heavy bags and stick fight as aerobics. Speaking of self defense, stick fight is so so much more effective than bare knuckles, I don't even think about bare knuckles much anymore. Like I said, I am slow, you just cannot be too fast when getting close to 70. I join in because I read the tittle and I share my experience.
I can always learn something from other people, maybe your knuckle conditioning exercise is valuable to me. I invited you because it’s too much to type to describe something like a teaching method on a forum setting. I also invited you because it sounded like you think I’m a bullshiner, I believe maybe I can give you something useful no matter your age. My Sigung was incredibly fast even in his late eighties, far and away faster than I ever was in my best day. You can also meet my training brothers and my students, it isn’t me, it’s the teaching method, that’s what our system is at its most basic foundation. Am I the best? Certainly not, but what/how I teach is legitimate and potentially useful to anyone including accomplished martial artists. It isn’t my creation, it’s James Wing Woo’s teaching system. I am one inheritor of the system. My offer stands if you ever pass through humboldt county, please feel welcome.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I only join reading the first post and starting from my first post. I did not see hammer fist and palm strikes, it must be before I join in. Hammer fist is good, but need to be closer than punching. But you don't worry about breaking knuckles. I taught my grand daughter using hammer fist. For close distance, I rather use elbows and knees.

Palm strikes is questionable.
Watch Bas Rutten vs Frank Shamrock. Bas is quite able to make palm strikes work. I too prefer elbow/knee.
 

Doc

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A boxers fracture is of the fifth metacarpal, not the first. I have had more than one street fight, and never broke a knuckle from a punching impact. It’s easy to avoid by knowing how to make a fist correctly, and not punching the rounded parts of the skull with knuckles. The facial parts of the skull are quite thin compared to the cranium, the bones behind the face plates have the consistency of potato chips.
The nature of a "boxer's fracture" is characterized by various knuckles, not just a particular one. Now, you're trying to justify punching the head in a specific place in a fight, which is ludicrous. Anyone who is knowledgeable knows when you attempt to punch the head you miss more than you hit, so in a street venue anticipating that kind of accuracy is folly. This is especially true when you understand that a boxing fracture occurs because boxers are unaccustomed to making a proper clenched fist outside of training or competing, which contributes to the breaking of hands in a street confrontation when punching to the head. To suggest and extrapolate what you say are "your street fights" without breaking your hand has nothing to do with reality, and if you're having that many street fights and it is not an occupational hazard, it suggests other things to me. Your experience is your experience, but it doesn't change the medical facts.

Dr. Chapél
 

Doc

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Yes, breaking board is dumb, but the effect on the bone is real. Like I said, I wore bag glove to punch. It has 1/4" padding, better cushioning than the skin on the skull. I don't do board breaking, just play around that time and that hurt.

You cannot punch with soft hands all the way. You relax the hand, only squeeze at the target point at the last moment. That's very basic thing in punching, nothing new. BUT you still need to squeeze at the last moment at contact. Of cause I did that, still break my knuckle bad.

This has nothing to do with marchioness, it's about strengthening the bones. I punch light, just to strengthen the bone, nothing about showing off, there's nothing to show off punching so light like me anyway. I think it will make a day and night difference on the knuckle.

Like I said, I am not new in punching. Been practicing on heavy bags for decades. Nothing can prepare you to punch skull. talk is easy, real life situation is dynamic, the guy moves, you likely not contact at the optimal point you expect.
My reference to "hitting the hard with soft, and the soft with hard" was an Ed Parker Sr. reference to weapons choices in confrontation. You don't hit a hard bone (head) with a weaker collection of bones (clenched fist), because it is not intelligent and has a greater chance of creating an injury. He meant to hit the head and associated area with an open hand and punch the softer body parts. No one trains to punch and punching power more than a boxer, and yet the medical term "boxer's fracture" has presented itself enough to be in the medical lexicon of medicine, so the term exists for a reason and oddly enough, it rarely occurs in the ring.
 

Doc

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First all, I am not running you down, we are all too old for that already. You are NOT reading my post. I said do NOT assume anyone can land a perfect punch at the perfect spot. NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOU ARE, there's always a faster person. All I am saying is toughen up the knuckles as insurance in case one miss and hit the forehead resulting in breaking the knuckles.

I did not say I am fast, I am slow. I did post a video of punching and kicking heavy bag, nothing to write home about. I am slow, so I practice in case I miss and hit the forehead. It's a good insurance.

Honestly, I treat kick boxing as aerobics only. I am too old to learn the newer and much more effective fighting skill like BJJ, MMA. I live in N Calif in the bayarea, but what is the point of getting together on this. If I have the body, I would much rather find a BJJ school to work on it instead of talking about who punch harder and faster!!! But I am too old and too injured for any of that. I just do my heavy bags and stick fight as aerobics. Speaking of self defense, stick fight is so so much more effective than bare knuckles, I don't even think about bare knuckles much anymore. Like I said, I am slow, you just cannot be too fast when getting close to 70. I join in because I read the tittle and I share my experience.
Preach. :) I look at the youngsters and you would think they live in feudal Japan or ancient China. For those that don't have jobs, a family, and are independently wealthy I guess you can train like that.
 

Rich Parsons

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Watch Bas Rutten vs Frank Shamrock. Bas is quite able to make palm strikes work. I too prefer elbow/knee.

I like palm and open hand techniques myself.
I like elbows and knees.
Yet, I will do others things as well, based upon all of my training and experience.
 

Alan0354

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I can always learn something from other people, maybe your knuckle conditioning exercise is valuable to me. I invited you because it’s too much to type to describe something like a teaching method on a forum setting. I also invited you because it sounded like you think I’m a bullshiner, I believe maybe I can give you something useful no matter your age. My Sigung was incredibly fast even in his late eighties, far and away faster than I ever was in my best day. You can also meet my training brothers and my students, it isn’t me, it’s the teaching method, that’s what our system is at its most basic foundation. Am I the best? Certainly not, but what/how I teach is legitimate and potentially useful to anyone including accomplished martial artists. It isn’t my creation, it’s James Wing Woo’s teaching system. I am one inheritor of the system. My offer stands if you ever pass through humboldt county, please feel welcome.
Thanks for the invite. like I said, I really more treating this as aerobics, not trying to improve and all that anymore. Too old for that, and I am just glad I can still doing it with my back problem.

I just want to clear up, I don't know you, I am by no means putting you down. What I want to come across is no matter how good one is, there is always someone that is fast and cause one to miss. Punching the pole is just an INSURANCE in case one misses and hit the skull, hopefully the knuckle survive from the pole punching. Nothing more.

I join in this thread because I personally broke the knuckle and I know how long it take to recover and go back to hitting the bags. It is bad. That's why I join in to warn people how bad can that be if that happens to them. That people should put some effort in strengthening the knuckles.

That's it, nothing more.

I know I am slow, it's even more important to have the "insurance".
 

Doc

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I think you think too highly of yourself and assume the other guy don't know anything. This is one thing I never get, you guys TALK fight, not fight.

Watch the UFC fight, look at how fast those people move. Don't assume you opponent just stand there. Give more credit to your opponent. Or you might be in with a brutal awakening.
If you can change direction during a punch, then you're not punching you're feinting. Anyone who makes that statement is not a fighter. An effective punch requires commitment significant to do damage and once committed cannot change direction. That's why when people miss sometimes they stumble and even fall down sometimes. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in the M.F.L. Martial Fantasy league.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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The nature of a "boxer's fracture" is characterized by various knuckles, not just a particular one. Now, you're trying to justify punching the head in a specific place in a fight, which is ludicrous. Anyone who is knowledgeable knows when you attempt to punch the head you miss more than you hit, so in a street venue anticipating that kind of accuracy is folly. This is especially true when you understand that a boxing fracture occurs because boxers are unaccustomed to making a proper clenched fist outside of training or competing, which contributes to the breaking of hands in a street confrontation when punching to the head. To suggest and extrapolate what you say are "your street fights" without breaking your hand has nothing to do with reality, and if you're having that many street fights and it is not an occupational hazard, it suggests other things to me. Your experience is your experience, but it doesn't change the medical facts.

Dr. Chapél
What kind of Dr are you? MD?
If you can change direction during a punch, then you're not punching you're feinting. Anyone who makes that statement is not a fighter. An effective punch requires commitment significant to do damage and once committed cannot change direction. That's why when people miss sometimes they stumble and even fall down sometimes. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in the M.F.L. Martial Fantasy league.
The nature of a "boxer's fracture" is characterized by various knuckles, not just a particular one. Now, you're trying to justify punching the head in a specific place in a fight, which is ludicrous. Anyone who is knowledgeable knows when you attempt to punch the head you miss more than you hit, so in a street venue anticipating that kind of accuracy is folly. This is especially true when you understand that a boxing fracture occurs because boxers are unaccustomed to making a proper clenched fist outside of training or competing, which contributes to the breaking of hands in a street confrontation when punching to the head. To suggest and extrapolate what you say are "your street fights" without breaking your hand has nothing to do with reality, and if you're having that many street fights and it is not an occupational hazard, it suggests other things to me. Your experience is your experience, but it doesn't change the medical facts.

Dr. Chapél
You are not correct. You are obviously not a surgeon. If you are unable to target or change direction, I’m sorry that you weren’t trained well. Maybe you should have trained with Woo instead of Parker. You dont know a thing about me or what I’ve done. I don’t care what you extrapolate from things you don’t know. You obviously don’t know the medical facts. What surgical experience do you have that you base these false “facts“ on? I have near to 20 years in an operating room fixing these things.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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If you can change direction during a punch, then you're not punching you're feinting. Anyone who makes that statement is not a fighter. An effective punch requires commitment significant to do damage and once committed cannot change direction. That's why when people miss sometimes they stumble and even fall down sometimes. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in the M.F.L. Martial Fantasy league.
Of course people miss, no surprise there. You are right I’m not a fighter. I never claimed to be a fighter. I said I have been in several fights. I said I have successfully punched people in the face without breaking anything in my body. I said I can change direction, which is true. I defined a boxer fracture because I have assisted in the repair of dozens of them and their corresponding injuries.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I don't know what I am doing kicking pole will help, but at least I have a better chance than if I don't. This is one kick I use. Scary.
I honestly don’t know either. It is scary to see someone’s leg wrap around another. I wouldn’t have believed it if i hadn’t seen it. It makes me wonder if he might have had an injury or hairline fracture previous to the incident. It could be that there is an underlying pathology there that we don’t know about. Impossible to say. I don’t want any more injuries, I have plenty of old ones that still bother me.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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If you can change direction during a punch, then you're not punching you're feinting. Anyone who makes that statement is not a fighter. An effective punch requires commitment significant to do damage and once committed cannot change direction. That's why when people miss sometimes they stumble and even fall down sometimes. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in the M.F.L. Martial Fantasy league.
🤣
 

Alan0354

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I honestly don’t know either. It is scary to see someone’s leg wrap around another. I wouldn’t have believed it if i hadn’t seen it. It makes me wonder if he might have had an injury or hairline fracture previous to the incident. It could be that there is an underlying pathology there that we don’t know about. Impossible to say. I don’t want any more injuries, I have plenty of old ones that still bother me.
Ha ha, that's why I am paying insurance!!! I don't know whether it will help, but it's only 2 mins, twice a week. I don't do anything more than in the video, that's it. I am not into breaking boards. I think I did that like 2 or 4 times in the past before I did the final time that broke my knuckle. The difference is the other times, I punched down with boards set up on the floor like what other people do. The time I broke my knuckle, I tied the board holder on a heavy bag to punch horizontally. Because I expect the bag moves, I punch all out, that there goes my knuckle!!! :((.

I never dare to punch boards since, never dare to anymore. Don't want to know whether punching pole helps or not!!!
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Ha ha, that's why I am paying insurance!!! I don't know whether it will help, but it's only 2 mins, twice a week. I don't do anything more than in the video, that's it. I am not into breaking boards. I think I did that like 2 or 4 times in the past before I did the final time that broke my knuckle. The difference is the other times, I punched down with boards set up on the floor like what other people do. The time I broke my knuckle, I tied the board holder on a heavy bag to punch horizontally. Because I expect the bag moves, I punch all out, that there goes my knuckle!!! :((.

I never dare to punch boards since, never dare to anymore. Don't want to know whether punching pole helps or not!!!
I never did much board breaking, I have seen boards and bricks broken. Some were impressive, some not so much...
 

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